Precisely - that was unlucky, but the results were at least partially calculable - ie. weighing up the quality,numbers and toughness of my men vs his. I have no problem with this. It the resolution dice causing hack downs which is dumb luck which is irrespective of the quality of the troops that i don't like.

No matter what the bonus going in, the resolution dice always potentially decide the fate of 5 units (either killed or saved) with almost no way to influence the roll through skill (except if you have fearless troops.)



This is a better option imho. My opponents and i discussed it, though it does limit the "risk" factor of assaults significantly more meaning it may unbalance lists slightly more.

And before anyone says it creates auto wins - no it doesn't. As per the example i gave : despite having almost four times the number of dice to roll, on the same odds with only a 4/5 differential in saving throws, i still came out 0:5 against on casualties. That still gives the "real world" effect everyone wants.

Agree here. There is enough chance and danger in assaults just from attacks and saves. The resolution dice are unnecessary.

but you went in to the assault fully expecting to wipe the unit out through kills and hackdowns?

removing your bad luck from the equation, you would have lost a single stand from the formation, bit of a disaster, but surely we should be philosophical about it....

I can't separate being okay with bad luck on CC/FF or armour rolls, (or any other crucial dice roll) from being annoyed at losing the assault rolloff, damn right a defending opponent should always have a chance against air-assaulting terminators or aspect warriors!! the modifiers exist as they are to give you options to stack the deck hard in your favour, if you coupled that with a D3 rolloff, then you might as well do away with it entirely, as it removes the risk factor

Air assaults are horrifically deadly, the ability to hit anywhere on the table with your best troops is a game winner, if you can get a couple of formations of terminators or wraithguard in the right place, they can rip your guts out, *almost* like clockwork..... having the D6 swing helps give someone a chance of surviving......

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The rule book states if you or your gaming group doesn't like any rule or part of a rule then change it to what you prefer, you do not need anyones permission.
I just don't see the need for an official or un-official rules change after 10 years where very few players have found this to be anything but annoying in a fun way.
The game is built around using d6 and the randomness of those rolls to affect the game.If a random roll with a swing of + or - 5 is spoiling your games or leaving players upset then maybe you shouldn't play a toy soldiers game that relies on those effects.
I've had many games myself where the result has been affected by good and bad luck with dice rolls, I've even lost Tournaments because of bad luck (and grumbled and groaned about that) but I've never thought the rules should be changed because of it.

That's what i'm doing - as my original post said, and i reiterated a while back. Not looking to change the "official or unofficial rules." This is a couple of house rules (only) for hack downs that my group had thought of trying because it has been bugging us. I planned to get some feed back from those who have played for longer as to if it bugged others, if had been debated before and if anyone had a better idea.

Feed back is : no one cares (but Ulric)

But don't worry, i not taking anything personally. Hope no one else is. As Mrs Merton says "Lets enjoy a heated debate."

Thanks for you thoughts.

I basically agree with you. I think the D3 does limit it too much. We did even think about eliminating the resolution roll entirely and work on just the combat result plus bonuses. Personally this is a more "pure" game, BUT. As one of my buddies pointed out, anything that significantly effects the riskiness of assaults would invalidate the list structures. Plus as we are thinking of playing in tournaments we don't want to change our "local" game too much.

We compromised on limiting the "(un)lucky" hack downs. The looser will still be stuffed (broken.) If you plan it right you still get that small chance to get the sweeping victory (which is vital with SMs and some Eldar as they don't have enough models to inflict major casualties on hits alone) and at the end of the day it will only really affect approx 1/24 - 1/36 of results anyway !

Thanks for everyone's thoughts. Would still like to hear if people have alturnative solutions, but i guess Ulik and i are in the minority here !

Agree there's no call to change it, especially as I'm the only one that minds. (I did try to get it changed 10 years ago, I don't think I'll have more luck now )

It's not that bad. I cringe a bit every time the resolution dice come up +3 or more for one side or the other (one in five assaults), but I can live with it. It's the worst part of EA, but in the end it's not a dealbreaker.

Final note (I just can't stop myself!): I'd prefer it if overwhelming assaults against a position were a bad idea because you might overcommit and get punished elsewhere, not because the resolution dice might decide to change the results from a total rout of the enemy to your formation breaking instead. But I know the vast majority disagrees with me. I'll be quiet now.

Sorry, air rules are the worst part of EA.

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Interesting - we haven't played a lot of "big air" games (i need to get painting) so its not had much effect on our games yet. The air rules are certainly long winded and complex, but not seen a fairness issue - care to elaborate Mephiston ?

Though if you start a new thread on it make sure you put plenty of disclaimers about "house rule" and "hypothetical" etc

I'd quite like to discuss my grist with BM modifiers - but i'll wait for another time

I really think discussing air-assaults is opening a huge can of worms, if you hunt around you can find plenty of hot debate on the issue!

I think this thread has come to a nice polite 'agree to disagree' point, no need to sour it with yet more discussion and OT stuff about air assaults!

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Fair enough, i'll take a look around before i brandish my can opener next time !

check this thread out if you want to see, I *think* there is a link (or links!) back to the original debate

personally I'm happy to stick it in the 5 min warmup and play either way m'self!

I will say that the NetEA interpretation of the rules makes air assaults even more potent, therefore resolution dice luck is often the only hope!

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I have a long and well documented aversion to AC hanging around on the table till the end phase, with no desire to revisit the issue before anyone starts.

That said this thread contains a lot of good stuff in my opinion - viewtopic.php?f=69&t=17589

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Thanks guys. Going on my hols for a week but will have a read when i get back.

Not looking to open the debate again, but I thought this was pretty funny:

So, my first game in a few months. Biel-Tan Eldar vs my Necrons.

After 1st turn teleports a Swooping Hawk host is within 15cm of a pylon, and within engagement range of a Monolith maniple. Eldar win strategy, and a Warp Spider host engages the Pylon out of the Wraithgate, positioned so that they can consolidate into supporting range against the Monolith maniple. Things are looking pretty good for the Eldar - they take out half the AA and half the portals on the table with their first two activations. The attack rolls are rather poor though - they only do one damage on the Pylon, which kills two Spiders in return. No matter, with outnumbering and exarchs they are still up by +3. They can still break the Pylon and go after the maniple.

The resolution dice come up snake eyes for the Eldar, and 5 for me. One more dead spider, and they break, never to rally again

I would have felt bad for him if I could have done anything about the Storm Serpents that then launched Wraithguard against my portals, wiping them out and winning the game for the Eldar.

edit: My solution is going to be to start a Tau army. That way freaky resolution dice will only hurt my opponent, as I'll expect to lose any and all assaults anyway!