I know this is kinda of a broad subject and to each person's interpretation, army make-up, actual battlefield situation, yadda yadda yadda, but I'm going to ask anyway.

What is the general consensus, at least on the boards, as to what is the most popular objective to achieve in a tournament setting? BTS? Blitz? Take and Hold?

I've realized in the last 6 months or so that when I'm playing, I'm almost more worried about totally annihilating my opponent than I am focusing on the objectives. That of coarse gets me into trouble and I'm spread out all over the field playing the usual game of attrition. I guess I'm saying I want to be smarter and a little more competitive about my choices, even though I'm having fun.

So what say you EA community and generals alike?

It really depends on the board setup, what army I'm using, and the opposing army what I go for. Against some races, BTS is an all or nothing affair so I may go for take and hold or Defend the Flag. Sometimes Blitz presents itself and I go for that or on rare occassions, they shall not pass. I think that's the hardest to get regularly since it's pretty easy to get one unit over the line most games.

I'ts part of the charm of playing epic to have so many options for victory that you can identify what route will work best in a given situation.

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-Vaaish

Yeah, pretty much. Most of it's so dependent on other factors, that the initial question doesn't really have an answer. If it were "Which do you GET more often?", I'd probably rate them BTS, Blitz, T&H, TSNP, and DTF, in that order of occurance.

BTS is the only objective you can directly concern yourself with in Turn 1+2. And the only one that can't be retaken* by the opponent. Though sometimes, typically with a Warlord Titan equivalent, I just don't worry about it.

Blitz is the easiest of the 3 Objective ones, because it requires only a small footprint, and usually doesn't have a strong possessional force, as anything that far back isn't going to influence the rest of the game easily. Usually, it's a token force, or an artillery formation. Either folds fairly easily to a Teleport/Airborne attack.

Take And Hold for me, usually comes about by Blitz + one other, rather than no Blitz, and both other. I tend to space them out, because it makes it harder for the opponent to provide support from each, meaning I can hope to take them apart piecemeal.

They Shall Not Pass, is IMO the hardest to actively accomplish, but happens more often than DTF, usually because I've had a fairly significant beatup of my opponent's forces, and those he does have left, he's trying to contest my taking of Blitz/T&H.

Defend the Flag is, at least locally, the least likely one for me to claim. Mainly because if my opponent widely distributes the objective (which I usually do), it takes 3 formations to claim it, and often means that they can't support the rest of the battle. A concentrated effort by the opponent to T&H/Blitz denies it, and even without, a single enemy spoiler formation can usually be inserted to contest and prevent it.

* In a few circumstances, it can, but that's usually because your opponent has penalized itself. Namely, keeping the most expensive formation off table through Turn 3, bringing it on Turn 4.

TSNP is definitely the hardest to accomplish IMO, because it's the only one that can be won or lost in the End Phase, and can be inadvertently gifted to the opponent (Break a unit, it doubles across the halfway line, and rallies. VP denied.

Absolutely. If the game was just about the kill, I doubt I would have started it, let alone stayed with it. I look into other games that either have this kind of VP consideration (like Malifaux), or look at incorporating something like it into other games (like Full Thrust).

Morgan Vening

The placing of the objective markers is a whole topic in its own right. Often it can make or break the subsequent game. A trite example is if you have a totally vehicular army, don't place your T&H objectives in impassable terrain. Equally, if your opponent has an entirely infantry army (slow), placing the T&H objective far apart forces the opponent to split his army or sacrifice one of them to a small token force of yours.

Jaldon gave a good precis in his excellent write up on E:A

I thought once you destroy the most expensive formation you gain BTS, regardless if a more expensive formation appears in a subsequent turn (say through teleportation or planetfall).
That is, there's a most expensive formation on the table in a given turn (may be several if there is a tie in point cost), destroying it (one of them) gains you BTS permanently.

No, BTS is only calculated at the end of turn 3 and 4, and doesn't "stay". If you have destroyed the most expensive formation at that point you get it for that turn only.

It's quite possible to have BTS at the end of turn 3 then not have it at the end of turn 4.

What? I thought if the most expensive formation of the army is not on the board, then you can't get BTS at all (which is not bad, as it means the opponent cannot use his most expensive formation).

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"Your limbs are mighty. Let them smite the foes of our Emperor."

Nope, it's the most expensive formation on the board.

Do what? That's not what the Rulebook says under victory conditions and the only clarification in the FAQ or Errata that I can see just says off board formations don't count toward BTS.

We've always played it that once the most expensive formation in the army has been destroyed BTS is achieved permanently. I.E. If your most expensive formation is a terminator formation at the time of list construction it becomes the BTS objective. Once that formation is destroyed BTS is achieved and it doesn't go away the next turn because when checked at the end of turn 4, the most expensive formation in the army has still been destroyed.

Saying that the BTS changes to the next most expensive formation seems rather gamey and something of a stretch under the explanation of what qualifies as the BTS since you need to insert "formation worth the most points ON THE BOARD" instead of what's written in the rules designating the "formation worth the most points IN THE OPPOSING ARMY" as the BTS.

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-Vaaish

That's not what I meant, it doesn't go away to the next most expensive formation if the terminators are killed, only if they don't turn up.

Imagine the situation above, with a terminator formation as the most expensive. Now imagine that at the end of turn 3 that formation hasn't teleported onto the board yet. Because of this, it doesn't count for BTS and so the most expensive formation that has been on the board is the one that is counted. You may have killed this and so have BTS at the end of turn 3, but if the terminators teleport on in turn 4 and aren't killed, you will no longer have BTS at the end of the game.

I see what you are saying, but I don't agree. I don't see the rules allowing for the BTS formation to be relinquished to the most expensive formation on the board if the most expensive formation in the army doesn't show up. If the BTS terminators don't teleport in until turn 4 the BTS hasn't been achieved even if the most expensive formation on the board is dead in turn 3.

The way the rules are the Terminators remain the BTS objective no matter what since they are the most expensive formation in the army. If they don't show up until turn 4, the BTS goal just isn't achievable for the opposing side until then.

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-Vaaish

Q: Do Spacecraft count for the Break Their Spirit goal if they are the most expensive formation in an army?
A: No. Spacecraft (or any off-board units or formations) do not count towards goals.

Surely terminators that have not teleported on are an off-board formation? We skip over spacecraft if they're the most expensive formation, why shouldn't we skip over other off-board formations, per the FAQ?

Zombo is correct as far as I am aware. The BTS is only determined at the end of turn #3 along with all the other objectives, and is the biggest formation completely destroyed on-table at that point. The same question is posed again at the end of turn four. So to use a trite example :-

Eldar player starts the game with loads of Guardians and EOVs on table,

In turn #1 a Storm Serpent is killed for 250 pts
In turn #2 the Nightwings are killed by AA fire for 300pts
In turn #3 His Aspects enter the table via a Webway for 400pts
At this point, although 'the biggest' on-table formations were killed in each turn, the Aspects count as his BTS. Lets assume that they are slaughtered (so the opponent gains the BTS), but the game is tied and proceeds to a 4th turn.


In turn #4 A reinforced Guardian formation arrives that costs 475pts (delayed off-table because the Storm Serpent was killed).
If this is not completely destroyed, then the opponent has not achieved the BTS objective at the end of this turn when the objectives are re-evaluated.

Indeed, during turn #4 other objectives may also change; you may kill off the last remaining enemy units in your half of the table and gain or lose control of any of the six on table objectives thus dramatically changing the results - and the BTS may similarly change (though I agree that it is a very rare event ).

Yes, I know that, as I referenced it earlier. In the context of that entry, Spacecraft are off-board formations because they can never come onto the playing field; they only exist off-board. Terminators may start in reserve off of the board, but they are not off-board formations because they are able to enter the playing field. In other words, terminators may start off-board, but they are not specifically an off-board formation in the sense that a spacecraft is.

I do not see that the FAQ is attempting to make the BTS formation a moving target as you are presenting by having it constantly change to the next most expensive formation destroyed. It is the simplest explanation that which ever formation, excluding spacecraft or other formations that work like spacecraft, has the highest point value is the BTS formation whether or not it is on the board.

That satisfies the requirement that the highest point value formation in the army is the designated BTS as per the rules and excludes formations or units that don't have rules for entering the board (i.e. off-board) from becoming the BTS.

In the example of the terminators, they are the BTS on table or in reserves and if the opposing player never destroys them, they have never gained the BTS goal regardless of the point values of formations they've destroyed in preceding turns.

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-Vaaish

I don't recall it ever having come up in a game, but I think Zombo has the right side of the issue here. The FAQ states "any off-board units or formations) do not count towards goals" and if the Terminators are still off the board then they wouldn't count for the goal and the next most expensive on table would instead at that point.