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World Eaters V1.0 vs Tau E1.09

 Post subject: World Eaters V1.0 vs Tau E1.09
PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 4:43 am 
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25/09/09

Army Lists
World Eaters V1.0 - Army List: World Eaters V1.0.pdf
         Discussion thread: http://www.tacticalwargames.net/forums/ ... 82;t=16291

Tau E1.09
         Discussion thread: http://www.tacticalwargames.net/forums/ ... 23;t=16587


Pre-game table set-up
** darker green felt areas are forests



Frogbear – World Eaters v1.0 - 3000 points (10 Activations)
- Berzerkers + 4x Rhino - 300
- Bloodpack - Berzerkers+Bloodpack+Skull Lord – 450
- Terminators +Teleport+Daemonic Pact - 575
- World Eater Bikes(1) - 200
- World Eater Bikes(2) – 200
- Assault Engines (4x Cannons of Khorne)+ Blood Slaughterer – 350
- Defiler Engines (3 xDefiler, 1 xSlaughterfiend) + Blood Slaughterer – 325
- Hellblades(1) – 200
- Hellblades(2) - 200
- Hellblades(3) – 200

**Unpainted Deathdealers substituting for Defilers
**Painted Deathdealers substituting for Blood Slaughterers




Tau  3000 Points (9 Activations)  
As best as I can remember it – ED
- Mech Fire Warrior Cadre +Bonded+Pathfinders+Fire Warriors - 525
- Crisis Battlesuit Cadre + 2xCrisis + Supreme Commander - 450
- Pathfinder Tetra Group – 200
- Hammerhead Support Group(Fusion) + Skyray - 350
- Hammerhead Support Group(Railguns)+ Hammerheads - 375
- Stealth Group - 300
- Broadside Group - 300
- Barracuda Squadron - 150
- AX-1-0 Squadron - 350



Garrisons:
Tau
- Broadsides set up in centre administration building - Overwatch
- Tertras string out between forest and administration building - Overwatch

World Eaters: None

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 Post subject: World Eaters V1.0 vs Tau E1.09
PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 4:43 am 
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Setr Up
- World Eater Bikes(1) set up behind Right hand Side Forest
- Mech Cadre set up in the middle of the table in front of their Blitz
- World Eater Bikes(2) set up beside Left Hand Side Hill
- Hammerhead(Rail) set up Left Hand Side of the Mech Cadre
- Berserkers set up Right Hand Side of the table
- Hammerhead(Fusion) set up Right Hand Side of the table behind hill
- Bloodpack set up left hand side of the table
- Crisis set up on their own back line
- Defiler Engines set up left hand side next to Bikes(2)
- Cannons of Khorne set up on the centre right of the table

World Eater Setup


…and from the other side



Tau Setup


…and from the other side



Note: All directions in battle report will be given from the standing point of the World Eater Player




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 Post subject: World Eaters V1.0 vs Tau E1.09
PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 4:48 am 
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Turn 1
Tau win Initiative
- Tetras Double around right hand side towards Bikes(1)
- Broadsides retain and Advance towards Cannons of Khorne and shoot killing 1xCannon and 1xBlood Slaughterer
- Hellblades(1) go on CAP
- Crisis Cadre March forward on right hand side forest
- Hellblades(2) go on CAP
- Barracuda go on CAP
- Bloodpack Double into left hand side ruins. In doing so, 2 troop stands out of 5 are lost due to the Bloodride rule. They shoot at Broadsides for no hits
- Hammerhead(fusion) fail to activate. With the SC, they manage to successfully double to the back of the admin building.
- Defiler engines Double right and shoot at Broadsides for no hits.
- Hammerhead(rail) advance left hand side and shoot Bloodpack for 2x Slaughterfiend deaths  
- Bikes(1) Double forward behind right hand side building
- AX10 GA Bloodpack. Hellblades(2) enacts CAP. Skyray shoots Flak for no hits. AX10 enacts AA for no hits. Hellblades(2) carry on with CAP and kill both AX10.
- Hellblades(3) GA Mech Cadre. Skyray Flaks for no hits. Barracudas CAP for no hits. Hellblades(3) continue GA and kill 1 Pathfinder.
- Mech Cadre goes on Overwatch
- Bikes(2) March down left hand side of the table to sit behind forest on opposition side of the table.
- Berserkers March to the left and stop in the middle of the table behind Defilers.


Rally Phase
- Cannons of Khorne fail to rally
- Mech Cadre fails to remove BM
- All other formations Rally

End of Turn 1





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 Post subject: World Eaters V1.0 vs Tau E1.09
PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 4:49 am 
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Turn 2

Teleports: Stealth Group teleport in a circle to enclose both Hammerhead units (Fusion & Rails) in their scout ZoC.

Tau win Initiative

- Broadsides Sustain against Defiler Engines killing Blood Slaughterer and 1xDefiler breaking the unit.
- Helltalons(2) Standown after failing their activation
- Tetras fail to activate
- Helltalons(3) Standown after failing their activation
- Hammerhead(fusion) Double towards Berserkers and fire on Rhinos killing 3
- Hammerheads(railguns) Advance towards Defiler Engines
- Bikes(1) Charge Tetras in a FF combat. After rolling a ‘2’ and the Tetras a ‘6’, the Tetras win by 2. Stubborn works to save the two extra hits and Bikes(1) fall back behind building.
- Mech Cadre Marshal, move forward and remove 2xBM
- Bikes(2) Charge Scout Group. Bikes lose by 1. Stubborn saves the extra hit and bikes retreat back behind forest.
- Scout Group March towards Bloodpack (within 15cm)
- Bloodpack Charge Scout Group and win the combat leaving only 1 stand alive which falls back into the administration building
- Berserkers Charge Hammerheads(fusion). Rolling a ‘6’ for the combat, while the Tau player rolled ‘2x1’s’, berserkers win by 3. Hammerhead(fusion) fallback behind Administration building.
- Crisis suits Advance towards the edge of the forest.
- Barracudas go on CAP


Rally Phase
- Hammerhead(fusion) fail to Rally even with a SC reroll
- Bikes(1) fail to rally
- Broadsides fail to remove BM
- Scout Group fails to rally
- Tetras rally
- Bikes(2) rally
- All other units rally and remove BM


Turn 3

Teleports: Terminators teleport behind Mech Cadre in front of Blitz.

World Eaters win Initiative.

- Terminators Charge Mech Cadre wiping them out for no losses and attaining the BTS
- Bloodpack retain and Charge Hammerheads(railguns) and lose by 4. Lone Slaughterfiend being Fearless stays where he is. Hammerheads move out of 5cm.
- Crisis Cadre call coordinated fire on Terminators. Tetras advance on Terminators for no hits. The Crisis Cadre shoots and kill two Terminators. Terminators break and move back next to Blitz.
- Hammerhead(railguns) fail to retain, so stand there and shoot at sole Slaughterfiend and kill him.
- Hellblades(2) GA Broadsides. Barracudas enact CAP killing 2 Hellblades. Single Hellblade continues GA run for no effect
- Broadsides fail to activate
- Bikes(2) March to gain Blitz

As Tau had no other units left to move, game ended here….


Game Over
World Eaters: 3 (BTS, Blitz, TSNP)
Tau: 0

Sorry for the lack of photos from Turn 1. We just forgot

I believe Dobbsy will post some observations of the battle from here.

Cheers…..

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 Post subject: World Eaters V1.0 vs Tau E1.09
PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 11:20 am 
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Excellent report.  :)

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 Post subject: World Eaters V1.0 vs Tau E1.09
PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 1:39 pm 
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Quote: (Evil and Chaos @ Sep. 27 2009, 20:20 )

Excellent report.  :)

Thanks dude  :agree:

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 Post subject: World Eaters V1.0 vs Tau E1.09
PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 2:55 pm 
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Yep a few bits of bad rolling and some stupid tactical errors cost me the game.

Quote: 

- AX10 GA Bloodpack. Hellblades(2) enacts CAP. Skyray shoots Flak for no hits. AX10 enacts AA for no hits. Hellblades(2) carry on with CAP and kill both AX10.
- Hellblades(3) GA Mech Cadre. Skyray Flaks for no hits. Barracudas CAP for no hits. Hellblades(3) continue GA and kill 1 Pathfinder.

Saying no more here than...  :flyboy:

Quote: 

- Hammerhead(fusion) Double towards Berserkers and fire on Rhinos killing 3

Quote: 

- Scout Group March towards Bloodpack (within 15cm)

Yep I won't be throwing my troops forward like this ever again. It essentially cost me the game. I will continue to use Patient Hunter correctly and keep my forces in support of one another and remain in my half until I think the time is right to enact Killing Blow. If I had not been reckless and done these two actions, those units would have been available to wreak more havoc in late game instead of being completely broken and useless after failing to rally.


Quote: 

- Mech Cadre Marshal, move forward and remove 2xBM

The biggest mistake I made all game without a doubt. If I had sat still on the blitz and not marshalled to clear 2 BMs I would have still been on OW ready for the terminators who I knew were coming next turn and I could have put a lot of Disrupt on them before they could assault and the FWs would most likely still have been there at the end of turn 3 to contest vs the 2 bikes units that eventually claimed Blitz. They may even have been able to kill the Terminators for BTS.   :heart-break:


Quote: 

- Crisis Cadre call coordinated fire on Terminators. Tetras advance on Terminators for no hits. The Crisis Cadre shoots and kill two Terminators. Terminators break and move back next to Blitz.

With 6 MW4+(they were marked), and 13 AP4+ from Plasma rifles and Missile racks we did no other kills than 2 from the Fusion shots.... Damned RA saves were too much for all those hits....

An interesting comment from Frogbear was that he didn't bring his terminators in turn 2 because the fusion Hammerheads were near my BTS FWs.... I definitely mis-used them in my first game with them. I think they'll make excellent deterrent forces against teleporters or any nearby assault with RA.

The thing I learned from this game:

I think the best ploy for the Tau to use is to make sure you stay close together for support. You can advance across the board this way too like a moving "bastion" - ooh! a new concept for Tau warfare???  "The mobile bastion" :laugh:


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 Post subject: World Eaters V1.0 vs Tau E1.09
PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 5:30 pm 
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Quote: 


I think the best ploy for the Tau to use is to make sure you stay close together for support.

So formations should... synergise???  :grin:

Any other thoughts on how the list played?

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 Post subject: World Eaters V1.0 vs Tau E1.09
PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 11:13 pm 
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Quote: 

Any other thoughts on how the list played?

Well I'm very happy with it in general. Most units can do what their sticker says. I'm pretty sure Crisis suits are correctly priced. As you saw, I put 19 shots on the terminators with 6 units and the SC. That's not underperforming. I wouldn't adjust their pricing personally.

FWs are a bit of an all or nothing formation I'm finding so far. They hit really well but they get smashed by any strong attack that can catch them. Having them sit still on OW is a good tactic to help deter assaults but that means they're static not fluid. And as I mentioned having the Fusion HHs nearby will only help the deterrent theory. I can foresee them having a great synergy as an in-close support formation for FWs given their 30cm range band.

I'm going to try the mobile bastion strategy next time I play.

EDIT - I have just realised I have been pricing the HHs incorrectly so this was an illegal list  :sad: I had 6 at 350 not 375.





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 Post subject: World Eaters V1.0 vs Tau E1.09
PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 11:40 pm 
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Quote: 

Tau  3000 Points (9 Activations)  
As best as I can remember it – ED
- Mech Fire Warrior Cadre +Bonded+Pathfinders+Fire Warriors - 525
- Crisis Battlesuit Cadre + 2xCrisis + Supreme Commander - 450
- Pathfinder Tetra Group – 200
- Hammerhead Support Group(Fusion) + Skyray - 350
- Hammerhead Support Group(Railguns)+ Hammerheads - 375
- Stealth Group - 300
- Broadside Group - 300
- Barracuda Squadron - 150
- AX-1-0 Squadron - 350


Actually it was(*incorrectly)
MFW + PF + BT + HH-I 500
Crisis + Crisis + SC 450
Recon 150
HH-F + HH-F + SR 450*
HH-R + HH-R 350*
Stealth 300
Broadsides 300
Barras 150
AX1-0 350

so 50 points over cost.


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 Post subject: World Eaters V1.0 vs Tau E1.09
PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 3:24 am 
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Here are my thoughts after the game and Tau in general:

1. We were short about 1.5 - 2 pieces of terrain. I think this is imperative when coming up against the Tau. You need terrain.

2. We did not do a 5 min debrief on the terrain and it's effect. In my view, you cannot shoot through terrain; only 10cm in or out. This is another important thing to agree on before a game.

3. The Tau could have just sat back and gone on Overwatch or Advanced and shot from a distance. There was very little the force I took could have done about that. It would have meant my Terminators would have been shot up and probably broken on a charge.

4. The Tau are rock hard against assaulting units, no matter what people have to say about their weaknesses. The combination of good armour, abilities such as first strike, coordinated fire, skimmer movement and marker lights can really see an assault force reduced to a blubbery mess.  

5. They are a gun line force, and from what I have seen, they will quickly become very boring to play against with an assaulting force. This is just my view. I would like to see other strategies with them.

Personally I do not like the Tau from what I have seen, yet that is just a personal preference for the style of forces that I like to play. I prefer forces that go forward and make a battle. My view is, the Tau are more like 'armchair forces' that just sit and maneuver and then base their whole strategy on the successful roll of the dice from their own side of the table.  I would really like to see people doing something different with them. There is no reason why Tau should not be up on casualties going into turns 3 and 4.

I would like to see a more fluid force with the drop ship used for (planetfall?), crossfire advantages used with coordinated fire, and an air battle with straffing runs on ground forces. With skimmers, they are well protected against most ground assault forces, so holding back forces should not be the only style of play. If this style is play is not available or appropriate with any of the lists, then why not...?




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 Post subject: World Eaters V1.0 vs Tau E1.09
PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 4:44 am 
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Oh yes, the old 'skimmer devilfish screen' is one of the most irritating things ever for small attacking formation that make it into base contact!

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 Post subject: World Eaters V1.0 vs Tau E1.09
PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 7:15 am 
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Quote: 

1. We were short about 1.5 - 2 pieces of terrain. I think this is imperative when coming up against the Tau. You need terrain.

Actually we had 13+ pieces and a standard tourney requires at least 12 (2 per square)

Quote: 

2. We did not do a 5 min debrief on the terrain and it's effect. In my view, you cannot shoot through terrain; only 10cm in or out. This is another important thing to agree on before a game.

Yeah we were a bit remiss with this. We got through it though.

Quote: 

3. The Tau could have just sat back and gone on Overwatch or Advanced and shot from a distance.

Yep it's what they do. Unfortunately your list is assault based. I suck in assault as was proven in the game.

Quote: 

There was very little the force I took could have done about that. It would have meant my Terminators would have been shot up and probably broken on a charge.

But they weren't and you got BTS ;) Hit stuff that's not on overwatch would be my plan if the roles were reversed. Adjusting your force will help in the future. Armour is a Tau favourite to dine on. More infantry could be more problematic for at least my Tau.

Quote: 

4. The Tau are rock hard against assaulting units, no matter what people have to say about their weaknesses.

Hehe, well I think your terminators and retinues proved that a bit wrong considering you wiped out the FWs without a single loss and your unit retinue killed all but one of my Stealths suits with 5+RA.

Quote: 

The combination of good armour, abilities such as first strike, coordinated fire, skimmer movement and marker lights can really see an assault force reduced to a blubbery mess.

Yep, but get us into assault and we generally go to water  :laugh: as we saw.

Quote: 

5. They are a gun line force, and from what I have seen, they will quickly become very boring to play against with an assaulting force. This is just my view. I would like to see other strategies with them.

Well you may not want to play me again then. I have a strategy I use and it's how I play. I do try to improve it ove rtime.

Quote: 

Personally I do not like the Tau from what I have seen, yet that is just a personal preference for the style of forces that I like to play. I prefer forces that go forward and make a battle. My view is, the Tau are more like 'armchair forces' that just sit and maneuver and then base their whole strategy on the successful roll of the dice from their own side of the table.  I would really like to see people doing something different with them. There is no reason why Tau should not be up on casualties going into turns 3 and 4.

And I was. You had the fusions and stealths reduced to broken formations and completely wiped out the FWs.

Quote: 

I would like to see a more fluid force with the drop ship used for (planetfall?), crossfire advantages used with coordinated fire, and an air battle with straffing runs on ground forces. With skimmers, they are well protected against most ground assault forces, so holding back forces should not be the only style of play. If this style is play is not available or appropriate with any of the lists, then why not...?

This force does all these things already mate, I just don't employ them enough as I'm usually trying to guess what will happen if I do X before Y happens etc. The one time i remembered to crossfire it was the termies and that was pointless  :laugh:
And don't forget you won. and convincingly

Quote: 

Oh yes, the old 'skimmer devilfish screen' is one of the most irritating things ever for small attacking formation that make it into base contact!

Then why would they try to make it to base contact..? That's why you have FF formations.... Simple logic really, if you know they are skimmers surely? Besides two skimmer tank formations plus FWsis hardly a "devilfish screen" LOL





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 Post subject: World Eaters V1.0 vs Tau E1.09
PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 7:28 am 
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Dobbsy

You do know the game was decided purely on the fact that you took your BTS off Overwatch don't you?

If they had remained on Overwatch, the Terminators would not have had that great an impact, and could have possibly been broken on the charge.

Alternatively, the Terminators could have taken on another unit not so well prepared, however it would have done nothing for winning the game, and would have been a waste of 550 points. Already, that was 550 points that did not take part in the battle on turns 1 and 2.

That simple decision (taking them off Overwatch), allowed the BTS to be a target, and allowed the bikes to move their 105cm to grab the blitz. Frankly, I was fighting a desperate battle in a no-win situation. I think that 11.00pm is probably a bad time to try and make decisions as 'brain farts' are quite common 16 hours into a day

:)

I won purely because of a 'brain fart' decision. I have no illusions of that fact.

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 Post subject: World Eaters V1.0 vs Tau E1.09
PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 7:30 am 
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Quote: (Dobbsy @ Sep. 28 2009, 16:15 )

Yep, but get us into assault and we generally go to water  :laugh: as we saw.

Two of those assaults were just bad luck with your rolls. 8 berserkers with 4 BM taking on 9 skimmers and winning is generally unheard of. It was a desperate action by me, that paid off due to bad rolls.

Quote: 

Well you may not want to play me again then. I have a strategy I use and it's how I play. I do try to improve it ove rtime.

It just needs more games trialling units in different ways. I am sure it can be done.




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