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New Krieg + Feral Ork lists up in the vault

 Post subject: New Krieg + Feral Ork lists up in the vault
PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2005 9:40 pm 
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In case anyone is still wondering what the future holds for the Epic line, point your browser on this thread:

http://www.specialist-games.com/epic/fo ... IC_ID=5596

Swordwind is the last printed book for E:A. Future supplements are online only.

No new books + few or no new minis = very dead game line. So long, E:A.

God bless NetEpic.....


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 Post subject: New Krieg + Feral Ork lists up in the vault
PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2005 1:37 am 
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Hi!

What is kind of unfair is that the person that least deserves to be reading and hearing about how bad epic support is - Jervis, is also very helpless to change GWs policies regarding SG games.

I wonder, very strongly, just when Jervis will follow in Andy Chambers footsteps......

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 Post subject: New Krieg + Feral Ork lists up in the vault
PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2005 2:24 am 
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GW has too many products to juggle at the moment cutting out the least profitable makes sense, it is a shame that it is epic that is being cut out but to be perfectly honest I am not entirely suprised, whilst Epic has always held a dear place in my heart it has not held a dear place in GW's heart for a long time. Having taken a long break from GW, I decided to set foot in a GW store again only to find that they only play three games now. 40k, Warhammer and LOTR... I asked one of the guys about epic and he had like no clue, told me that I had to order epic minis either instore or online. Heh I'm a 22yr old and I'm a little apprehensive about handing money over and not having anything in return until 1 or 2 weeks time, Imagine how a 12/13yr old feels. GW doesnt want Epic around and I can see BFG, Necromunda, Warmaster and the other SG games dissappearing soon too.

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 Post subject: New Krieg + Feral Ork lists up in the vault
PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2005 5:46 am 
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Too bad ... but this does not look good, no matter how you look at it.  Personally, I've got over 14 years worth of EPIC rules and models.  But I would have liked to see some of the new models they talked about.  F/W may make few Epic pieces, as it always has.  And don't forget they did the complete Tau Army, save for a few pieces, which probably will be made eventually. But who knows about F/Orks, Necrons, etc., etc ... :{

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 Post subject: New Krieg + Feral Ork lists up in the vault
PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2005 4:16 pm 
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Even if no rules are published "hard copy", I'd still like to see a few F/Ork and Necron models plus the CI. ?Whether, you like it or not all the other armies have years worth of models ! SM1/AT1/SM2/TL/E40K ... that's a lot of stuff! :)  I've got most of it arrayed in my War Room ! And I collect IG, SM (including Traitor-SM1), Ork, Eldar, Chaos/Cultists, Squat, 'Nid, TL, and Tau !  Did I miss any ?!     :;):




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 Post subject: New Krieg + Feral Ork lists up in the vault
PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2005 4:45 pm 
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...along with the axing of both Warhammer Monthly (ok) and Inferno (oh no!) are two steps which cannot help even their main games range.


Interesting, didn't know this was on the cards...

Warhammer Monthly/Comic has recently been voted the years favourite British comic (for about the 3rd time iirc) - another case of GW shooting themelves in the foot then? :L
Sounds that way to me....

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 Post subject: New Krieg + Feral Ork lists up in the vault
PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2005 8:56 pm 
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In a weird sort of way, E-A is becoming Net-Epic...

It's all going on-line and becoming fan-generated...

I guess Net-Epic won the struggle... :D

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 Post subject: New Krieg + Feral Ork lists up in the vault
PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2005 9:30 pm 
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In some ways, the end of Inferno is worse than the problems with SG. I am sure that what puts GW ahead of most other companies is its completeness and depth of imagery. Without Inferno, where will the new writers and characters come from (Gaunt, et al)? Without these, they will find it difficult to commision full novels. And if they dry up, there could be real problems. I am not so worried about Warhammer Monthly. Personally, I really didnt like it. Sure it won 'best of British' awards, but what was it up against?  ???

I agree that the release schedule was flawed (oh, the benefit of hindsight!). Even if Fanatic had concentrated on one book with one force, it would have made more sense to start from 'the back' and tackle the Chaos and Tyranid forces near the beginning, and dont withdraw the previous version miniatures at all. If this had been done, the playtest lists would actually be useable, and all the forces would be done faster.

All that said, I have to admit that I am still fairly optimistic about EA. I do think that it has a stronger base than E40K had, and to be honest I dont think that there is anything left to cut... so we can at least expect stability. It also has a better reputation as a quality game than the previous edition. It wont ever be the game to rival 40K, but it never would be. If Forge World bring out the occassional mini, and the catalgoue is kept open, I can see it hanging around for quite a while yet, and being fairly stable once the recent storms have passed.

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 Post subject: New Krieg + Feral Ork lists up in the vault
PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:43 am 
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First, I agree that the absence of future printed supplements spells doom for EA and provides a very good insight at what GW intends for the game : pay lip service to an existing community with web "support" (when will we get at least a changelog for the LRBs ?) and try to sell a couple of models with as little investment as possible (AKA bitz archives). People expecting to see a Necron army from GW (FW being still a possibility, however remote), and expecting online supplements with the quality of the rulebook and Swordwind are either very optimistic or borderline delusional.

That being said, I'm not sure that having a "complete" product would have guaranteed a success for EA.

After all, SM2 was not a finished product from the start : it had 4 expansions (Armies of the Imperium, Renegades, Ork & Squad Warlords, Hive Warriors) and a standalone/spinoff game (Titan Legions), not to mention the tons of articles for extra units/options in WD. All of that took some time to get released. SM2/TL was (back then) a sufficient success to get supported pretty well, even when other games already got axed (RIP Man'O'War...).

On the other hand, rules-wise, Epic 40K was a finished product from the start, since the book had army lists for all existing and upcoming armies. And army releases were pretty frequent at first (the game had SM and Orks in the box, and it took only a few months for Eldars, IG and Tyranids to get released, even without counting the incomplete Chaos line). Also, people with SM-era armies could use them with tournament-sanctionned rules right out of the box. That wasn't enough to prevent E40K from being axed.

I also don't think that E40K tanked because of its rules : although some old-timers were miffed because of the very high level of abstraction, it's not unusual for new versions of GW-products to generate distress/anger for a part of their older customers (I suspect this is partly by design to get rid of people who don't by that much anyway). And (donning flameproof suit here), a company able to sell an atrociously flawed system like WH40K would definitely have been able to sell E40K if it had put its mind to it.

In hindsight, I don't think anything could have saved EA considering how it started :
- very confidential game (no advertisement in WD, no demos in stores...)
- many rehashed models
- weird release schedule spanning over many years and having small unknown armies (Feral Orks, Siegemasters) take the place of some of the main armies (Chaos, Nids)

But with their recent decisions GW is not deciding to correct those flaws, but to make them even worse ! :O


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 Post subject: New Krieg + Feral Ork lists up in the vault
PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2005 3:42 am 
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Hi!

Very Good Points Corwin. Solid Post. :)

However, note that epic 40k, was not "complete" it was missing Squats.... ?:;): (Of course they did release one in CJ at some point later, but that doesnt count..... :p ).

Do you think the online support will last though?

I'm thinking another year or so before even that fades away.

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