Eldar Craftworld list |
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CyberShadow
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Post subject: Eldar Craftworld list  Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2005 12:03 pm |
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Since all eyes seem to be on the Eldar for Epic right now, and since I am working my way through the Swordwind book, I thought that it would be a good time to adapt my E40K force list for EA. I wanted to get some assistance from you guys to try to iron out any inconsistencies and to get rid of a lot of the bias and make it an interesting and balanced force.
First up, I have a few questions and comments from Swordwind. Oh, my poor Guardians, what have they done to you? I think that infantry in general has a fairly tough time in EA, but these guys and gals seem to be very difficult to prove useful. They have no save, meaning that they have a habit of falling over their own feet and dropping unconscious just by trapping themselves in the zip of their armour, and their close combat ability is laughable. Sure, a firefight of 4+ is fairly decent, but if you are in firefight range then often you will find the enemy jumping on you quickly. And after all of this, the only real option is to add some weapons platform? as long as you actually want to transport the guys. And I do object to taking troops just because of the different units you can add to them. Oh yes, you can add Wave Serpents (which have been continually watered down over the generations) but these also have no AT weaponry. To be honest, I am not really complaining too much, since I can see the underlying logic and reasoning behind almost all of the factors involved, but how can I use the humble Guardian stands aggressively (or even defensively) and get value for points from them? (Since my Eldar force is built on its Guardians.)
Dark Reapers. You have to feel sorry for these guys. They can only look on in awe at their Marine enemy who are able to take pot shots at enemy tanks! Hell, even the Orks and the lowly Imperial Guard have master the art of an infantry weapon that can scare a vehicle. They even have a greater range! I always thought that the Reapers were the scourge of the battlefield, able to get into positions and streak deadly missiles towards the enemy armour. What happened?
Shinig Spears, probably my least favourite Aspect, but close combat only? I know that it is a ?lance?, but I always saw these guys as having a ranged, anti infantry weapons. They cant even use their lances in a firefight. I would give the Spears the Reapers cannon, and ask the Reapers to pick up some of those cool and more advanced Ork weapons (!).
Oh, and, ?gracility?? Is Jervis just showing off now? 
_________________ https://www.cybershadow.ninja - A brief look into my twisted world, including wargames and beyond. https://www.net-armageddon.org - The official NetEA (Epic Armageddon) site and resource.
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CyberShadow
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Post subject: Eldar Craftworld list Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2005 12:04 pm |
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| Swarm Tyrant |
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OK, that has got the basics out of my system, thanks for bearing with me. Some quick background to my Craftworld, Dia?Thendril.
An extremely fragmented troop of Eldar, their Craftworld was destroyed aeons ago, near the centre of the galaxy. No-one outside the Craftworld society know what happened, or why, and no Dia?Thendril Eldar will ever talk of it. Relatively small bands of the Eldar, called Star Shards, travel across the webway. They will occasionally meet, trade and move off. Members of one Shard may join another in these meetings and they seem to happen at almost organised times.
The Dia?Thendril are unusual in that they do not posses or worship an Avatar figure. It is said that their Avatar was lost in the destruction of their Craftworld. As a response to this, the Dia?Thendril dispersed into groups in order to locate it. The legend is that the Dia?Thendril Eldar will one day find the Avatar, and that they will then all be united into a single power ? an embodiment of their patron God, Thendril, who was turned into a Winged Serpent and shoots lightening from his hands in humanoid form, or his mouth when in serpent form.
The overall structure of the Craftworld society is unknown, but it is speculated that there is a central cabal, directing the movements of each of the Shards. Each Shard is completely self sufficient in all ways and seem primarily geared for warfare. They do not stay in any place or planet for long and appear and disappear extremely quickly, it is even fairly common for a number of Shards to arrive at the same time, to engage in battle and then move off, without communication passing between the separate groups.
Because of their small groups and the fact that they move along the webway, the Star Shards are composed mainly of infantry, with relatively few large vehicles such as Heavy Tanks or Titans. There are a large number of guardians, with support from the various aspect warriors, including some aspects which do not seem to exist outside of the Dia?Thendril society. Each Shard is lead by a council composed generally of Farseers and Exarchs. The society is also unusual in that it does not have a Avatar, instead there seem to be a number of Phoenix Lords who are allied to the Craftworld. Although each Star Shard is lead by a council which can include psykers, this is not always the case. Some Shards are lead by only psykers, some by only Exarchs, some by a Phoenix Lord, some only by Guardians and some by a mixture.
One of the biggest mysteries about this Craftworld is the location of their Spirit Stones. On a normal Craftworld, the Spirit Stones are stored a central hall of the Craftworld and are interfaced to the Infinity Matrix. With Dia?Thendril, the Spirit Stones are collected by the Eldar and taken away. Some are drafted into Ghost Warriors immediately ? and this reduces the shock of such a transfer and improves the co-ordination and effectiveness of the symbiosis. It has been postulated that the remaining Spirit Stones are collected and taken to a central place of importance, where they are grafted onto a device which is similar in many ways to the Infinity Matrix. It has even been suggested that this device is what is referred to as the cabal, which directs the Star Shards movements and actions. It is possible that this is located in the Webway, or a section which exists both in real space and the warp ? but this is currently unknown. There have been reports of a special sect, the Harvesters, within the Craftworld structure which travel between the Star Shards and collect the Spirit Stones. |
So, the basic premise is that the Craftworld is very different from the typical. I will eventually add all sorts of extra Aspects and so on, but for now I an interested in just looking at the key units from Swordwind and organizing them. I can add extra formations and units later.
Prinmarily, I want the Craftworld to be highly mobile, and fragile (but not exclusively Jet Bikes). I want it to be able to relocate extremely quickly and simply vanish from one flank to appear on another. I want it to fair badly in a stand up fight, and rely heavily on hit and run and careful use of units.
_________________ https://www.cybershadow.ninja - A brief look into my twisted world, including wargames and beyond. https://www.net-armageddon.org - The official NetEA (Epic Armageddon) site and resource.
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CyberShadow
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Post subject: Eldar Craftworld list Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2005 12:15 pm |
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Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 6:22 pm
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Give all of that above (and you don?t need to read it all), my idea for the Craftworld is to concentrate on some units that I simply like the background for, and get rid of others. Strongly represented in the force are Striking Scorpion Aspect Warriors, Warp Spider Aspect Warriors, War Walkers (my favourite 40K Eldar unit), Fire Prisms (I just don?t like the Firestorms) and Nightwings. These strengths don?t need extra rules, they are just for me to bear in mind when I pick the force.
I also want to reorganise the Guardian hosts. Out go the Wraithguard and Wraithlords (heavy armour and slow!), and heavy weapon and support weapon platforms, and in come Guardian close combat squads (perhaps cc4+, ff6+ or even cc5+, ff5+) and the ability to add Vypers to the host as highly mobile weapon platforms. All Guardians should be transported, too. I may also add the upgrade to mount the Guardians (and Farseer) in Jet Bikes, instead of having them as a separate host.
Wraithguard and Wraithlords are unavailable in this Eldar force, also out goes the Void Spinner (as a Swordwind specific unit). Also, out goes the Avatar (and Court, obviously), and the force will be led by an Autarch (which is a almost Phoenix Lord by another name, right?) who is usually a Striking Scorpion.
Other changes proposed are Cobras and Scorpion Super Heavies being available in pairs as a single choice (am I the only one who prefers the E40K version of these vehicles?), and Storm Serpents being available individually.
So, the first draft looks like this (I have not changed any unit stats from Swordwind. I will add extra formations later, including extra Aspect Warrior ones. Any points suggestions would be appreciated):
INDIVIDUALS
0-1 Wraithgate (as Swordwind)
0-1 Autarch (as Swordwind, but as a separate stand added to an Aspect Warrior Host and is in addition to the two Exarchs normally allowed)
HOSTS
Aspect Warrior Warhost (as Swordwind)
Guardian Warhost
Core
- 1x Farseer, 7x Guardian (each can be a defender squad (as Swordwind) or Storm Squad (close combat)
Upgrade
? Each Guardian unit can be exchanged for a Jet Bike unit
- Wave Serpent and/or Falcon transports (not for Jet Bike units, can be used with other upgrades)
- Add up to three Vypers
War Walker Host (as Swordwind)
TROUPES (Up to 3 for each Host)
Ranger Troupe (as Swordwind)
Fire Prism Troupe (as Swordwind)
Night Spinner Troupe (as Swordwind)
Storm Serpent Troupe (one Storm Serpent)
Engines of Vaul Troupe (two units, each either a Cobra or Scorpion or a combination)
SPACECRAFT, AIRCRAFT AND TITANS
All as Swordwind |
I think that this makes the Guardian Host a must more interesting unit, without taking away its specialisation or is Eldar-ness. What do you think? Any comments would be appreciated. Thanks.
_________________ https://www.cybershadow.ninja - A brief look into my twisted world, including wargames and beyond. https://www.net-armageddon.org - The official NetEA (Epic Armageddon) site and resource.
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Zerloon
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Post subject: Eldar Craftworld list Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2005 1:09 pm |
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Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2004 3:01 am
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This my 0.02 cents:
INDIVIDUALS
0-1 Wraithgate (as Swordwind)
0-1 Autarch (as Swordwind, but as a separate stand added to an Aspect Warrior Host and is in addition to the two Exarchs normally allowed)
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I figure Autarch should cost more then.
HOSTS
Aspect Warrior Warhost (as Swordwind)
Guardian Warhost
Core
- 1x Farseer, 7x Guardian (each can be a defender squad (as Swordwind) or Storm Squad (close combat)
Upgrade
? Each Guardian unit can be exchanged for a Jet Bike unit
- Wave Serpent and/or Falcon transports (not for Jet Bike units, can be used with other upgrades)
- Add up to three Vypers
War Walker Host (as Swordwind)
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So in this manner you will have Aspect Warhost like Biel Tan, Wind Rider warhost like Saim Hann, War Walker Warhost like Alaitoc (maybe) and Falcon transport like Ulthwe, more versatile without any disavantage of other lists... Excuse me but this is totally unbalanced. Read the list in the EpiA Vault, if you confront them you will note the difference.
TROUPES (Up to 3 for each Host)
Storm Serpent Troupe (one Storm Serpent)
Engines of Vaul Troupe (two units, each either a Cobra or Scorpion or a combination)
I don't understand why divide them, you can actually take the same combination with the standard Engine of Vaul troupe.
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wargame_insomniac
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Post subject: Eldar Craftworld list Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2005 4:16 pm |
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| Purestrain |
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Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2004 6:42 pm
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Location: West Yorkshire, UK
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Hi CS.
If you're Eldar force is built on your guardians, maybe the Biel-Tan aspect-heavy list is not for you? Early on in the playtesting I argued that the first Eldar list for Epic A should be a generic craftworld list in the same way as SM and IG lists in the main rulebook. They could have then done specific lists for various craftworlds such as Biel-Tan and Ulthwe later.
However Jervis decided not to go for that approach so will either have to stick with published list or go for 1 of the playtest lists in the vault. Myabe Ulthwe would suit you better with its emphasis on guardians?
Version 2.1 of the Ulthwe list is newly up in the playtest vault. I can't imagine many opponents having a problem letting you use storm guardians instead of the main guradian warhost.
Not sure if you should be able to have both guardian warhosts AND windrider hosts though. I do think you should choose one or the other.
Cheers
James
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CyberShadow
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Post subject: Eldar Craftworld list Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2005 4:26 pm |
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Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 6:22 pm
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Thanks for your comments guys.
Yes, the Autarch would be at least 100 points. (Standard Autarch plus Exarch costs). Perhaps more if he was a third character to an Aspect Warrior host.
I have not looked through the variant Eldar lists properly, I have to admit. I do try to use the first incarnation of any list, as I find that later variations on the lists become more and more powerful and less balanced. So, in general the earliest list that I can find is usually the best one.
Zerloon - thanks for your comments. I am actually looking for something that is difficult to use, but powerful when used right. Clearly, I am not there yet.
The Engines of Vaul are split to allow a maximum of two Engines per formation, and will not allow Storm Serpents to be taken with other Engines.
I want to build this around the fast Guardian idea. How about this:
INDIVIDUALS
0-1 Wraithgate (as Swordwind)
0-1 Autarch (as Swordwind, but as a separate stand added to an Aspect Warrior Host and is in addition to the two Exarchs normally allowed, probably 100 points.)
HOSTS
Aspect Warrior Warhost (as Swordwind, I will need to examine other lists for how the Aspects work and this will probably change)
Guardian Warhost
Core
- 1x Farseer, 7x Guardian (each can be a defender squad (as Swordwind) or Storm Squad (close combat)
Upgrade
- Wave Serpent transports (can be used with other upgrades, this upgrade may be compulsary)
- Add up to three Vypers
War Walker Host (as Swordwind, I would like to keep this, but if it is too much then I would relegate it to a Troupe)
TROUPES (Up to 3 for each Host)
Ranger Troupe (as Swordwind)
Fire Prism Troupe (as Swordwind)
Night Spinner Troupe (as Swordwind)
Storm Serpent Troupe (one Storm Serpent)
Engines of Vaul Troupe (two units, each either a Cobra or Scorpion or a combination)
Wind Rider Troupe (as Swordwind, but no Vypers allowed)
SPACECRAFT, AIRCRAFT AND TITANS
All as Swordwind |
Is this any better? Thanks.
_________________ https://www.cybershadow.ninja - A brief look into my twisted world, including wargames and beyond. https://www.net-armageddon.org - The official NetEA (Epic Armageddon) site and resource.
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nealhunt
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Post subject: Eldar Craftworld list Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2005 7:55 pm |
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| Purestrain |
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Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:52 pm
Posts: 9617
Location: Nashville, TN, USA
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It sounds like starting from the Saim Hann vault list would be a better way to go. Obviously, it has the bike formations. All the aspects and guardians are mounted. No Void Spinners.
I don't really understand the point of having the Vypers for fire support in a guardian host. They don't amount to significant firepower and if you want them primarily for placing BMs, the wave serpents can do that just as well.
I also don't really understand the War Walker Host from a tactical purpose perspective.
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Guardians: Don't sell them short until you have used them.
4+FF is very effective. When you go to assault, obviously, keep the distance 10+cm so your opponent cannot counter-charge into base contact. Put the wave serpets in front. If you are constricted by terrain and have to get closer, your opponent will have to engage them first and since they are skimmers they can choose to FF anyway. Either way, the hits will be allocated to the 5+RA on the WS before they are allocated to the guardians.
Having a commander (Farseer) in a ton of formations makes combined assaults very easy and common. The Hit and Run rule allows Eldar to pull off some truly amazing multi-assault turns.
So, imagine something like this:
Action 1 - Take a double-move and shoot action with a loaded guardian host. Unload within 10-15cm. The WS fire at the target formation, placing BMs for the eventual assault.
Action 2 (retained initiative) - Assault the target formation, with a second guardian host. That's 24 FF4+ shots, counting the support formation. They have BMs from the preparatory fire. Your assault host starts as 12 strong for outnumbering. Against a decent armor (say, 4+ save) opponent, you can reasonably expect _6_ kills, +1 or +2 from BMs, and a good chance to outnumber, gaining another +1.
As if that weren't enough, your winning formation gets a full move to consolidate, allowing it to load up and move ~30cm, into support range for...
Action 3 (second retained initiative) - repeat the above. The guardians from Action 2 have to stay loaded because the consolidation move doesn't get to unload, but it's still extra support. And if you use bikes in step 2, they DO get to support at full effect.
And we haven't even gotten into the combined Guardian/Aspect assaults. A bunch of Scorpions in base contact to keep your guardians safely at FF range is nasty.
Reapers: Again, don't discount their FF ability. You can move within support range, fire at a target (the eventual assault target, or anyone else if you prefer), and then retain to assault the threatened formation.
And if you put them in falcons (or just some in falcons), you have a very strong mix of AP/AT in a single formation. Against some formations that doesn't work very well, but against someone like Marines who almost always have mixed infantry/AV, it is a monster.
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Neal
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CyberShadow
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Post subject: Eldar Craftworld list Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 1:03 am |
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Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 6:22 pm
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Location: Singapore
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Thanks for your comments so far guys. I really do want these Eldar do be a challenge, and something that people would be very happy to play against. So, a few points?
I have now looked at the Saim-Hann, Ulthwe and (obviously) Biel Tan lists. For me, none of them really capture what I trying to get out of my Eldar. The Saim Hann is fine, but I want to build my force around transported Guardians, rather than Jet Bikes. Ulthwe are closer, but without the Black Guardians, and the Biel Tann I have discussed. However, looking over these lists has given me a much better idea of what a ?vanilla? Eldar force would look like, and this was slightly skewed by the Biel Tann list alone. I would like a unique force for my Eldar. I have not found a complete Alaitoc list, but the discussions are interesting. As far as I understand it, the ?character formation? will be a ranger unit, which will be able to take War Walkers as upgrades.
The things that I consider key to the force are ? Storm Squad Guardians, War Walkers, Vypers moved from Jet Bike units to Guardian units, lack of ?heavy? or slow units.
Neal ? Thanks for the comments on both the Guardians and the Reapers. I will be the first to admit that I need a lot more practice with ?firefight? troops, and you have given me some ideas. I have never wanted to change any of the established stats, and your comments have convinced me to stick with them and trust in the design process.
I have realised that my thoughts on Aspect Warriors were off, as a result of only looking at the Biel Tann list. My apologies for that. My Craftworld do rely on their Aspects, who are central to the organisation, but are not as strong as the Biel Tann. So, I have downsized the formation and moved it to a Troupe (support formation). Should this be set at four stands plus transport, or a core of four with an option to add another two, plus transports? I would like to make it four or six stands, but I am unsure if this is too much.
I can understand confusion over the Vypers. Think of them as replacing the Support Weapon Platforms. I want some support fire that can keep up with the transported Guardians. I would guess that around 30-35 points each is about right? Also, note that I have taken Vypers away from the Jet Bike Troupe. I see the Jet Bikes as the piranha shoals of my Eldar, and the Vypers as the longer ranged mobile platforms.
The War Walkers are mainly in there because I just really like them. They technically replace the Wraithlords, and I think that they give a fairly fragile weapon platform and fit with the whole idea of the force hitting and then withdrawing and relocating. They have the potential to hit hard, but cannot be left still for too long and pinned down.
The Storm Squad Guardians are a bit more difficult. One the one hand, I think that CC4+, FF6+ is the most logical, but that makes them better in close combat than Dire Avengers and Swooping Hawks, and as good as Striking Scorpions! On the other hand, CC5+ and FF5+ is not too bad, and may be more realistic. I am considering CC5+, FF6+ as well, but this may make them a poor cousin to the Defender (standard) Squads. Right now, I am leaning towards CC5+, FF5+, but any comments would be appreciated.
In addition, I have made the Guardians transports compulsory. It was always the plan, so they now have to come with Wave Serpents.
I would also like to add a dedicated command formation at some point. Adding Autarchs is fine, but a ?only one available? command formation would be nice, and presents some interesting possibilities. Any suggestions there would also be appreciated.
Also note that I have taken out the option of Falcons that don?t transport. If you want Falcons, you have to give them to an Aspect Troupe. Also, no units in the force can garrison. The Rangers present a problem. They are a nice unit, but they are also the only unit with a speed of 15cm which cannot take transports. I just don?t think that transports fit their background.
So this leaves the current incarnation of the list as?
INDIVIDUALS
0-1 Wraithgate (as Swordwind, 50 points)
0-1 Autarch (as Swordwind (+75 points), must be the only Exarch in an Aspect Troupe. This guy will probably be replaced out, maybe for a Phoenix Lord from the destroyed Craftworld as a dedicated unit)
HOSTS
Guardian Warhost
Core
- 1x Farseer, 7x Guardian (each can be a defender squad (as Swordwind) or Storm Squad (close combat)), 4x Wave Serpents (350 points)
Upgrade
- Add up to three Vypers (+30 or + 35 points each)
War Walker Host (as Swordwind, six for 200 points)
TROUPES (Up to 3 for each Host)
Aspect Warrior Troupe
Core
- 4x Aspect Warriors (150 points)
Upgrade
- 2x Aspect Warriors (+75 points)
- 1x Exarch (+25 points)
- Transports of Wave Serpents or Falcons (+50/+65 points)
Jet Bike Troupe (6 Jet Bike units at 200 points)
Ranger Troupe (4 Ranger stands at 100 points)
Fire Prism Troupe (3 Fire Prisms at 250 points)
Night Spinner Troupe (3 Night Spinners at 175 points)
Storm Serpent Troupe (1 Storm Serpent at 250 points)
Engines of Vaul Troupe (2 units, each either a Cobra or Scorpion or a combination, for 500 points)
SPACECRAFT, AIRCRAFT AND TITANS
All as Swordwind |
Further comments?
_________________ https://www.cybershadow.ninja - A brief look into my twisted world, including wargames and beyond. https://www.net-armageddon.org - The official NetEA (Epic Armageddon) site and resource.
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wargame_insomniac
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Post subject: Eldar Craftworld list Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 3:03 pm |
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| Purestrain |
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Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2004 6:42 pm
Posts: 3305
Location: West Yorkshire, UK
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CS
Have you got or have access to the 40k Codex Eye of Terror? They had an army list in their for Ulthwe Strike Force. That featured a Guardian heavy fast force with jetbikes and vypers. Maybe that would help provide a framework for your ideas.
Then have a look in the SG Forum if anyone has done a Fan-list for the Ulthwe Strke Force for Epic A.
If you don't have Codex EoT let me know and I will try to dig my copy out so that I can summarise main bits on force selection.
Cheers
James
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nealhunt
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Post subject: Eldar Craftworld list Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 3:30 pm |
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| Purestrain |
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Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:52 pm
Posts: 9617
Location: Nashville, TN, USA
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It looks usable to me but as always, I have more comments  :
>> Should [aspects] be set at four stands plus transport, or a core of four with an option to add another two, plus transports?
I suspect either will work fine, as long as it is limited to 1 exarch per formation. I have some small reservations about the effectiveness of 2 4-unit aspect troupes loaded in a Vampire. I think they could be more effective than a single 8-unit host, but opinions on that issue seem to vary.
>> Think of [vypers] as replacing the Support Weapon Platforms.
I understand the concept, but I don't think you're going to find them tactically useful. Unlike adding weapon platforms to a foot-slogger host, the mounted hosts already have ranged fire. Ranged fire has 2 uses - killing the enemy and blacing BMs. The difference in firepower isn't going to change whether firing at range is viable for actual attrition of the enemy. It still won't be very effective and therefore firing is a waste of the formation's core capability - assault.
I think they are fine for character, and in light of their (imho) limited usefulness, I would put them at 30 points to start with.
>> I see the Jet Bikes as the piranha shoals of my Eldar, and the Vypers as the longer ranged mobile platforms.
Taking out the ranged fire removes the bikes' ability to place BMs. Even with 35cm skimmer movement, assaults just won't happen every turn. The ability to take a pot shot and place a BM after a double move can be extremely valuable. Personally, I don't think allowing a vyper in the formation appreciably changes the "piranha" feel, but your mileage may vary.
>> The War Walkers are mainly in there because I just really like them.
Sounds okay to me. You might consider boosting the host to 8 models (for 250?) just to give them some more staying power and more of a "host" feel. Also, if you are denying all garrisons, where does that leave these guys?
>> One the one hand, I think that CC4+, FF6+ is the most logical, but that makes them better in close combat than Dire Avengers and Swooping Hawks, and as good as Striking Scorpions!
I think that's okay. They are better at CC in 40K than DAs or Hawks. They have a lower WS, but they have 2 attacks each and will usually have a warlock with them to use Enhance. They still won't be as good as Scorpions because the Scorpions get twice the number of attacks.
>> On the other hand, CC5+ and FF5+ is not too bad, and may be more realistic.
Also a good option.
>> I would also like to add a dedicated command formation at some point.
I think I would go for the Farseer Council. It's the only dedicated commander in the eldar background that fits in with the guardian-based nature of the army.
You may find yourself light on AT without the falcons. One option to add that back in would be to allow the Vampire Raiders as air support.
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I think the list is solid and balanced. If anything, I would guess it to be a tad on the weak side and most of the options I mentioned above would give littel boosts.
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Neal
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CyberShadow
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Post subject: Eldar Craftworld list Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 7:07 pm |
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| Swarm Tyrant |
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Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 6:22 pm
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Location: Singapore
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Continued thanks, guys, for helping me to slap this thing into shape.
They had an army list in their for Ulthwe Strike Force. That featured a Guardian heavy fast force with jetbikes and vypers. |
I think that I got something like this from the web site. However, I am obviously not be very clear here (not so unusual!). What I am looking for are formations of Guardians which can mix in and threaten an enemy formation or flank, and then mount up and zip off somewhere else easily. I am not very interested in Jet Bikes as a focus to the force.
I suspect either will work fine, as long as it is limited to 1 exarch per formation. |
Are Exarchs really that good? Anyway, I like the idea of a core unit of four, with the ability to add a further two. This will mean that some Aspect Troupes (eg Scorpions) can be larger than other (eg Reapers). I wont trouble myself with the merits of two lots of four or onelot of eight... I will leave that to the Epic Intellectuals.
I understand the concept, but I don't think you're going to find them tactically useful.
That is all fine, but you have to admit that the Host swooping in, Vypers spraying AT shots while the Guardians jump out of Wave Serpents to firefight, is a great theme! I will just be very pleased to get some AT weapons that can keep up with the Guardians. Thirty points sounds good to me.
Personally, I don't think allowing a vyper in the formation appreciably changes the "piranha" feel, but your mileage may vary.
True, the Jet Bikes wont be able to soften up targets before launching at them. But, they will be able to work with other formations, and I see them pouncing and finishing off already broken formations while the rest of the force moves forwards. I would want them to work on flanks and behind my own lines really.
You might consider boosting the host to 8 models (for 250?) just to give them some more staying power and more of a "host" feel. Also, if you are denying all garrisons, where does that leave these guys?
Eight for 250 sounds good to me too. They cant garrison (more in a minute), meaning that they will need to double time. I see these guys as capturing rally points and then moving on. They will be difficult to use well, but I can live with that.
They are better at CC in 40K than DAs or Hawks.
True, but it also puts them on a par with Marines! And I have to bear in mind that they should be pointed at the same level as the 'standard' Guardians, to avoid paying to upgrade them. I will probably go with CC5+, FF5+ at least for now. However, I will need to think about this more.
As for the command formation, I wanted something a bit more military than a Seer council. A Phoenix Lord and retinue would be ideal... More thoughts required.
It is true that without the Falcons I may lack AT weapons. But, remember that they are also provided by the Vypers, and could potentially be dotted in quite a few formations. This is one reason to limit Falcons to their transport role for Aspects.
I had forgotten about the two types of Vampire, and since I was using Swordwind to start with, I just assumed that I would use the Vampire Raider. It suits me fine. I will also have ready access to Nightwings.
Coming back to garrisons, what if the Rangers were the only unit in the force that was able to garrison? It feels right, helps their lack of mevement compared to the rest of the force, and allows some advanced movement.
And so, the not-very-modified latest version is:
INDIVIDUALS
0-1 Wraithgate (as Swordwind, 50 points)
0-1 Autarch (as Swordwind (+75 points), must be the only Exarch in an Aspect Troupe. This guy will probably be replaced out, maybe for a Phoenix Lord from the destroyed Craftworld as a dedicated unit)
HOSTS
Guardian Warhost
Core
- 1x Farseer, 7x Guardian (each can be a defender squad (as Swordwind) or Storm Squad (close combat)), 4x Wave Serpents (350 points)
Upgrade
- Add up to three Vypers (+30 points each)
War Walker Host (as Swordwind, eight for 250 points)
TROUPES (Up to 3 for each Host)
Aspect Warrior Troupe
Core
- 4x Aspect Warriors (150 points)
Upgrade
- 2x Aspect Warriors (+75 points)
- 1x Exarch (+25 points)
- Transports of Wave Serpents or Falcons (+50/+65 points)
Jet Bike Troupe (6 Jet Bike units at 200 points)
Ranger Troupe (4 Ranger stands at 100 points)
Fire Prism Troupe (3 Fire Prisms at 250 points)
Night Spinner Troupe (3 Night Spinners at 175 points)
Storm Serpent Troupe (1 Storm Serpent at 250 points)
Engines of Vaul Troupe (2 units, each either a Cobra or Scorpion or a combination, for 500 points)
SPACECRAFT, AIRCRAFT AND TITANS
All as Swordwind (including the use of the Vampire Raider)
Things to consider:Storm Squad Guardians. Are the stats right, or should they be CC4+, FF6+?
Dedicated command formation
