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Change in titan "options"
Robilus
 Post subject: Change in titan "options"
PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2004 8:33 pm 
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Quote (primarch @ 18 2004 Oct.,15:58)
It seems we are all in agreement, the newer epic "metals" are not up to snuff.

No, I would not agree with that.  The newer models (properly new stuff like the Land Raider, Vulture, Landing Craft, Vindicator, Land Speeder, Siege Guns, etc), though a small few seem to have molding problems, are much superior models to the older stuff in terms of sculpt and detail.  Definetly "up to snuff".

The main problem I can see seems to be the modified old stuff.  

Take the Leman Russ for example, because of the way it is cast now, it is inferior to the 1996 model.  You lose the variation of the different hull parts there used to be which is bad enough, but more importantly you have really bad detail problems with the sides of the model and problems with the turret not fitting against the hull properly.

Another example is the manticore hull.  The current version is badly molded compared to the old bits, its really atrocious, even worse than the Leman Russ.

But then there are other bits molded from the older pieces that are fine, such as the hull you get with the Deathstrike, and the new Basilisk model (which is a mixture of old and new).

In regards to metal infantry sized figures, they all seem to be very nicely molded to me, with the exception of the Storm Troopers.  The Storm Troopers seem to have some problems with too much metal on the legs.

Considering the prices we are paying though, there really shouldn't be any molding problems.

Rob
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Warmaster Nice
 Post subject: Change in titan "options"
PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2004 9:03 pm 
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I think it is pretty obvious that the current miniatures range is on a much smaller budget than E40k. Of course there's the issues of simplified re-issues but a part I find interesting are some of the solutions for the Marine and Ork range.
Without critizising the abilities of the sculptors it'd say that the detail on some of the new the miniatures are pretty low. Many of the new ork vehicles do not have rivets sculpted on but simply small holes, The marine vehicle's panel lines aren't very well cast and full of flash and also not quite  symmetric (though this is no major problem).
All in all the miniatures are ok but they aren't great nor better than those of other companies anymore and they're certainly much more expensive.
The thing is, that we all know that GW can do better if they wanted to. However the guys with the money who make the major decisions seem to have their own ideas of what makes good business practice.

Cheers! :)

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dafrca
 Post subject: Change in titan "options"
PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2004 10:13 pm 
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Quote (Robilus @ 18 2004 Oct.,12:33)
Quote (primarch @ 18 2004 Oct.,15:58)
It seems we are all in agreement, the newer epic "metals" are not up to snuff.

No, I would not agree with that. ?The newer models (properly new stuff like the Land Raider, Vulture, Landing Craft, Vindicator, Land Speeder, Siege Guns, etc), though a small few seem to have molding problems, are much superior models to the older stuff in terms of sculpt and detail. ?Definetly "up to snuff".

Rob,

I am glad they worked out for you. I just disagree they are "up to snuff". Landraider with so much extra metal as to make some details obscure, Vulture with poor cast, Land speeder with mold lines that are very unacceptable (looked like 1980s stuff). Not to even go into a full company of Chimeras each with so much poo still attached as to make me wonder if the mold was even sealed before they ran it.

No, when compaired with the last release, GW has lost their QC, lost their high ground on detail, lost their minds on prices, and overall lost the feel that they were number one.

It is a classic example of someone resting on past laurels.

dafrca

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primarch
 Post subject: Change in titan "options"
PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2004 10:24 pm 
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Hi!


I dunno about that, I thought Jervis did a fairly good job of "fessing up" to his mistakes in the Epic40K design and came up with a nice fix in the form of Epic Armageddon


Its not a comment directed towards rules design, but their marketing. Which is virtually unchanged in regards to how epic is presented and sold. Exposure is still low, availability patchy (depends on where you live) and support via MO in most cases.

Game design is one thing, marketing another. :)

Primarch

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primarch
 Post subject: Change in titan "options"
PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2004 10:28 pm 
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Hi!

Robilus, compared to epic 40k era stuff, I think the current quality is very hit or miss. While the Epic 40k rules may have flopped, the minis they came out with at that time look VERY good and are of high quality and detail. That was seven years ago. You'd think they do it better now, but I dont see it.

Average quality at astronomical prices is not the way to go.

Primarch

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Robilus
 Post subject: Change in titan "options"
PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2004 11:41 pm 
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Quote (dafrca @ 18 2004 Oct.,22:13)
I am glad they worked out for you. I just disagree they are "up to snuff". Landraider with so much extra metal as to make some details obscure, Vulture with poor cast, Land speeder with mold lines that are very unacceptable (looked like 1980s stuff). Not to even go into a full company of Chimeras each with so much poo still attached as to make me wonder if the mold was even sealed before they ran it.

No, when compaired with the last release, GW has lost their QC, lost their high ground on detail, lost their minds on prices, and overall lost the feel that they were number one.

It is a classic example of someone resting on past laurels.

dafrca

I feel for you.  As I said though, most of the newer minis I haven't had a problem with.  The only things I have had are a bit of extra metal on the sides of predator and whirlwind hulls (fairly easily removed), and some bad Storm Troopers.

The main problem I have had is with re-cast old models, which I agree is really bad.

Rob
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Robilus
 Post subject: Change in titan "options"
PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2004 11:50 pm 
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Quote (primarch @ 18 2004 Oct.,22:28)
the minis they came out with at that time look VERY good and are of high quality and detail. That was seven years ago. You'd think they do it better now, but I dont see it.

The minis from the 1996 release were good, not great due to the styling, but good, as far as the vehicles go.  And of course, the IG plastics remain unmatched.

However, I think they definetly do it better now (casting issues aside) where all non-infantry stuff is concerned.

Things like the Vulture and the SM Landing Craft, all the new SM vehicles really, the new siege guns, the FW stuff.  For me, nothing in the old 1996 Epic 40K line is as well done as those minis.

Rob
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primarch
 Post subject: Change in titan "options"
PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2004 12:21 am 
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Hi!

Granted, there are some good models out now, especially the ones you mentioned. But the 1997 IG vehicle models were superb and still sought after, IMO a match for what out now.

In general though I cant remember any 1997 era model that were as bad as some of the "re-casts". Truth be told though its not just the re-cast problem, but the coupling with exorbitant pricing that makes it hard to swallow.

I guess we just need to be more discriminating in our purchases. I used to buy epic, just because it had the epic label on it. Now I'll be extremely judicious in what makes it into the "primarchload"... :;):

Primarch

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dafrca
 Post subject: Change in titan "options"
PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2004 12:45 am 
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Quote (primarch @ 18 2004 Oct.,16:21)
I guess we just need to be more discriminating in our purchases. I used to buy epic, just because it had the epic label on it. Now I'll be extremely judicious in what makes it into the "primarchload"... :;):

This is what I am thinking as well.

I have been looking forward to the new minisand the release of some of the older minis. It is hard for me to tell the recasts from the originals now. The poor QC along with the high prices that has be slowing down my overall excitement.

dafrca

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primarch
 Post subject: Change in titan "options"
PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2004 1:47 am 
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Hi!

Tell you what...

...since picking up ONE blister or pack for a lot of this stuff is no big deal, I'll offer myself as the "guinea pig". I'll pick one up, take pictures and such and then you can make up your minds if its worth it or not.

I figure that at least half the time they will be good and the other half will be put into my bit box.....

Primarch

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dafrca
 Post subject: Change in titan "options"
PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2004 4:47 am 
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Quote (Robilus @ 18 2004 Oct.,15:41)
I feel for you. ?As I said though, most of the newer minis I haven't had a problem with.

Thanks, maybe I will have better luck on the next buy.  :;):

I will say, I agree the storm troopers left a lot to be desired. I think my Siege Troops will have to just use some proxies and some of the old school minis.

dafrca

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Tas
 Post subject: Change in titan "options"
PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2004 6:10 am 
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"I will say, I agree the storm troopers left a lot to be desired. "

And thats where the old Assault Guardsmen come in! :)

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dafrca
 Post subject: Change in titan "options"
PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2004 7:03 am 
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Quote (Tas @ 18 2004 Oct.,22:10)
"I will say, I agree the storm troopers left a lot to be desired. "

And thats where the old Assault Guardsmen come in! :)

I agree 100%. I have enough for two "Storm Trooper" formations. I just have to make up mu mind to assemble the FW Valkeries now.  :p

dafrca

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Tas
 Post subject: Change in titan "options"
PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2004 10:53 am 
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I havent actually got any of the models since the release of EA.

You guys are making me think twice about ordering, especially with the extra postage - is it really that bad?  And if so, why havent we all been screaming at GW Customer Service? ???

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Robilus
 Post subject: Change in titan "options"
PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2004 11:29 am 
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Quote (dafrca @ 19 2004 Oct.,04:47)
Thanks, maybe I will have better luck on the next buy. ?:;):

I will say, I agree the storm troopers left a lot to be desired. I think my Siege Troops will have to just use some proxies and some of the old school minis.

dafrca

Its true sadly.  I was really excited about the ST's, especially after seeing the close up pics on tuffskulls site.

I was disapointed when they arrived.  I'd say out of the blisters I got, about 1/3rd were up to standard, 1/3rd were   just OK after work with a knife and a file on their right legs, and the last 1/3rd were fit only for being melted down.

Hopefully FW will release some decent Storm Troopers to go with their Grey Knights stuff, as is rumoured

Rob
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