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Oh No they say he's got to.........

 Post subject: Oh No they say he's got to.........
PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2004 2:47 pm 
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hmmm....only problem with that is you could be slowing the game down with this particular change.  Me personally, I prefer the One formation, One target rules, as it keeps the game simpler and faster flowing.  But, that is just me. :p

my 2cents,

iblisdrax

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 Post subject: Oh No they say he's got to.........
PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 2:21 am 
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Quote (iblisdrax @ 08 2004 Sep.,06:47)
Me personally, I prefer the One formation, One target rules, as it keeps the game simpler and faster flowing. ?But, that is just me. :p

No, it is not just you.  :D

I too like the one formation, one target simplistic idea. I will never ask a set of rules to be completly "realistic". I know sometimes rules must give up realism for playability, and quite frankly I want a simple game to have fun with.  :laugh:

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 Post subject: Oh No they say he's got to.........
PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 8:46 am 
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To each his own I guess. But I don't think it would slow the game down, at least by much. OTOH it would certainly add more realism to the target selection. I have played ASL and am not fond of TOO detailed rules but there are times when the "simplicity" factor gets more weight than it should.  :L

Like Legion 4 usually says: do whatever works for you. I think that should be the first line in the wargamer's first book of indoctrinations.

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 Post subject: Oh No they say he's got to.........
PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 11:12 am 
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Agreed and agreed. Simplicity is ok as long as it is ok for the gaming experience but in case it does not model well what should be happening with a minimum of common sense yoi might consider increasing the overall length of the battle by 15-20 minutes (in a 4 hour battle that is not much) and get a much more comprehensive result with minimal chages. I would go for that.

Still, if we do NOT apply any house rules, it seems that adding leman russes or other stuff like that to an infantry company is poo. For an infantry (not mechanized) company, stuff like demolishers *might* be good since they add to ther firepower of the squad, specially in firefights when you want to conquer an enemy entrenched position, but not as the stop-gap option to get a shot at tanks that treaten your formation, that it would be my idea of why to take them :l So the rules are quite weird here.

And yup, do whatever works for you. As long as you have fun it is good! :cool:

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 Post subject: Oh No they say he's got to.........
PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 11:56 am 
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L4's school of thought can never be questioned. We also use a bunch of house rules to suit our tastes.

I prefer to only allow SOME formations to act independantly. After all the IG is traditionally not a very flexible force. Leave that to armies like Space Marines and Eldar. Even though ity may not allways be common sense it is sometimes nesescary in order to differentiate armies and give them unique characteristics. One of the main problems in E40k was IMO that you had no real sense of command structure for each army. You could have IG or Ork formations of only a few tanks and Eldar hosts bigger than an IG company!

Though it may make the IG less effective I prefer to have huge formations grinding the enemy down rather than many smalll flexible "realistic" formations. It just feels a bit more fluffy IMO.

But like I said: do what suits your tastes. :)

Cheers!:)

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 Post subject: Oh No they say he's got to.........
PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 3:55 pm 
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Quote (Mojarn Piett @ 09 2004 Sep.,00:46)
To each his own I guess. But I don't think it would slow the game down, at least by much.

Xavi suggested allowing each "squad" in a formation to select and fire at it's own target. So let's see, that means I could have ten different targets with ten different combat resolution calculations to do for just my first tank formation?

I can not see how anyone could argue this would not slow the game down. Should we allow this, the number of each seperate calculations per activation would grow quite large, and slow for very little aded "realism". The very game mechanic we are using is based on massed fire is effective fire.

Of course if that is what you think of as fun, well then have at it.  :;):

dafrca

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 Post subject: Oh No they say he's got to.........
PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 4:01 pm 
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Well ... my work is done here ... :;):  Thanks Boyz ! :D

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 Post subject: Oh No they say he's got to.........
PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 4:02 pm 
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Nope, I suggest each PLATOON (6 infantry bases, or 3 tanks) to shot at different target. That is 2 formations for an basic infantry company, 3 for a tank company. If you rake a tank platoon in the infantry company, then it would be an other one as well (can select an other target).

So not as many as you say :)

Regards,

Xavi

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 Post subject: Oh No they say he's got to.........
PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 4:28 pm 
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The way we do it is that formations are only integrated during transport. Using SM1 TO&Es generally with some modifications as required.  Examples: IG Tac Det is 9 Stands, when activated, they would move, fire etc.  A L/Russ det. is 3-5 tanks, when activated they would do the same.  No unit would consist of both vehicles and infantry etc., save for during transport and a few exceptions like a Commissar Stand with Rhino.  The rule we made for special troops (as in SM2) like Chaplins, Libs, Medics, etc., that they can be attached to standard units. Like a Medic stand and his Rhino may be attached to an SM Tac Det of 8 Stands and in this case they would activate as one unit.  Of course there is a lot more units to activate, generally. :D

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 Post subject: Oh No they say he's got to.........
PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 5:45 pm 
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Quote (Xavi @ 09 2004 Sep.,08:02)
Nope, I suggest each PLATOON (6 infantry bases, or 3 tanks) to shot at different target. That is 2 formations for an basic infantry company, 3 for a tank company. If you rake a tank platoon in the infantry company, then it would be an other one as well (can select an other target).

So not as many as you say :)

Regards,

Xavi

Xavi,

So when you wrote:
Well, I was proposing even more flexibility than that, with each squadron acting on their own like an independent formation...

You ment Platoon. OK so it is a lower number, but it still will slow the game down. My two tank companies go from two activations with two combat resolutions to two activations with eight combat resolutions (three platoons plus command tank each).

To be clear, I am not saying your idea is "bad" but what I am saying is let's not think it will not slow down the game, it will. Why am I so sure, because we play tested split fire in many different forms durring the playtest of the original rules. I was one on the side for allowing split fire.

We tried split by type (All At to one target and all AP to another. We tried allowing each unit to fire, we tried troops and trasports, we tried only Super Heavies and Titans, we tried lots of different combos. Each had some good points and some bad, but all of them added to the time needed to finish an activation, thus the normal game took longer. The one formation/one target took the least amount of time.

But please play as you see fit.

dafrca

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 Post subject: Oh No they say he's got to.........
PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 5:57 pm 
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Usual problems with terminology, heh. A squadron in the spanish army (the one I based my model on) is a platoon in the US army.

I was thinking more along the lines of assigning the HQ as an "upgrade" to one of the platoons. That would mean that a tank company would be 3 groups, not 4: 3, 3 and 4 tanks. An infantry company would be 2 (infantry platoons, one of them containing the HQ) or 4, depending if you turned the transports into independent units or not after the dudes dismouted.

And yes, of course it would slow the game down. It would also be more realistic IMO and I would be glad to pay the price for slower game but with better "reasoning". But well, that's me. We are already beating a dead cow here :)

Regards,

Xavi

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 Post subject: Oh No they say he's got to.........
PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2005 10:53 pm 
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You are not really going to be able to pull this one off unless you have a gaming friend, or friends, that; (A) Have a real good sense of humor; (B) Really likes challenges; © Is more interested in having fun over winning. If you are lucky and you do then read on, but no scrolling down to the bottom to see how the story ends you?ll enjoy it more if you read it through. Trust me!

Call your friend(s) up and say that you have put together a small ladder campaign that you need to use to playtest a new army list, and that you would like their help. Be up front and tell them the army they?ll be facing is totally new, and comes with a small catch, you cannot tell them anything about it, it?s special rules, it?s unit data sheet, or anything, because you need a totally frank assessment and revealing any of that information would ruin said assessment. Also explain that being a playtest of both the mini-ladder campaign and a new army that it is probably not very well balanced. If they agree then get ready to have some fun.

Opponents Campaign Preperations

Tell your friend(s) that they need to put together a 3,000 point army list for the first scenario of the campaign, and that this will be the core list for the next two scenarios to be fought in the campaign, the only restriction is that no spacecraft can be taken.

For the second scenario tell them they can change 1,000 points of troops from the core list that was used in the first scenario. This must be done in complete formations, cannot be below 1,000 points, and cannot go above 1,200 points. The formations used in this sub list can be duplicates of formations removed from the core army, if they wish, just as long as the core list and this list are noted separately for the second scenario.

For the third scenario tell them they can change 1,000 points of troops from the entire list that was used in the second scenario. This must be done in complete formations, cannot be below 1,000 points, and cannot go above 1,200 points. The formations used in this sub list can be duplicates of formations removed from those used in the entire second scenarios? army, if they wish, just as long as the core list and this list are noted separately for the third scenario.

Tell them they must arrive to play the campaign with all three lists ready to go, and that they will not be able to change them once the campaign starts. Tell them also not to worry the battles will not last that long and that we will probably get the entire campaign done in a couple of hours (4 to 6 hours is average, trust me).

The Campaign Scenarios, in order.......

Scenario #1 ?The Destruction of Power Plant #186?
(Use a 4? x 6? Table)
Background
Two days ago all communication with the Turoch Mine was lost and local command is concerned that their are now Eldar or Ork Pirates in the area. Your forces have been sent to sweep the area, find the perpetrators, and eliminate them, while protecting Power Plant #186 from them.

Terrain Set Up
You set up the terrain in any way you like, as per standard GT rules, but you cannot use a river or any buldings. Then tell your friend(s) to pick either short table edge as their baseline, and then tell them the opposite short edge will be your table edge.

Opponents Set Up
Give your opponent(s) one building and tell them to place it anywhere on their baseline as they would a Blitz objective. Tell them that this is your objective for this scenario and all they need to do is protect it.

Tell them to deploy up to 1/3 of their army, in points and complete formations, anywhere that is at least 60cms from your table edge, and not more then 75cms from that same table edge. Tell them the rest of their army arrives on turn one moving in at any point along their baseline.

Your Set Up
You deploy your forces 15cms in from your table edge after your friend(s) are finished deploying their forces (Remember no scrolling down yet to see just what those forces are!).

Victory Conditions
Tell your friend(s) that all they have to do is keep you from destroying the Power Plant by the end of the fourth turn. If they do then they win both the battle and the campaign.

Scenario #2 ?Hold The Line?
(Use a 4? x 6? Table)
Background
With the destruction of the Power Plant your surviving forces have withdrawn to this area in an attempt to prevent the enemy from getting to the town of Krasnygorad, and it?s people. Reinforcements are being rushed to the area to aid you in this effort.

Terrain Set Up
You set up the terrain in any way you like, as per standard GT rules, but you cannot use a river or any buldings. Then tell your friend(s) to pick either short table edge as their baseline, and then tell them the opposite short edge will be your table edge.

Opponents Set Up
Tell your friend(s) to divide up their core forces into two separate ?commands? with each command containing at least 650 points of troops in complete formations. After they have done this tell them to deploy the largest command, in points, at least 30cms from your table edge, but no more then 45cms from your table edge. Then tell them to deploy the second command, the smaller one in points and complete formations, at least 60cms from your table edge, but not more then 75cms from that same table edge. Tell them that the separate 1,000 point block they created arrives on turn one moving in at any point along their baseline.

Your Set Up
You deploy your forces 15cms in from your table edge after your friend(s) are finished deploying their forces (Uh, Uh, Uh, Remember no scrolling down yet to see just what those forces are!).

Victory Conditions
Tell your friends all they have to do is keep you from moving your forces off their chosen taqble edge before the end of turn four. If they do then they win both the battle and the campaign.

Scenario #3 ?The Defense of Krasnygorad?
(Use a 4? x 6? Table)
Background
Our forces have failed to save the power plant, and haven?t been able to drive the enemy off. Now we have no choice but to dig our heels in and protect the town long enough for it?s people to escape.

Terrain Set Up
You set up the terrain in any way you like, as per standard GT rules, but you cannot use a river or any buldings. Then tell your friend(s) to pick either short table edge as their baseline, and then tell them the opposite short edge will be your table edge. Once this is done give your friend(s) seven buildings and tell them to place them so that all of them are within 60cms of their table edge, so that every building is within 20cms of another two buildings, and where no building is within 15cms of another building.

Opponents Deployment
Tell your friend to deploy their core forces anywhere on the table that is not within 30cms of your table edge, and at least 75cms away from their own table edge. Then tell them to deploy the 1,000 point they created anywhere that puts them within 15cms of a building.

Your Deployment
You deploy your forces 15cms in from your table edge after your friend(s) are finished deploying their forces (Hey you made it this far so no scrolling down yet to see just what those forces are!).

Victory Conditions
Tell your friend(s) that they have to keep you from destroying all seven buildings before the end of turn six. If they do they win the battle and the campaign.

Now

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What

Your

Army

Is



King of the Monsters
Strategy Rating: 1+
Initiative Rating: 1+

Godzilla (WE)
Speed Armor Close Combat Fire Fight
 10cm   4+             3+                 3+
Weapons Range     Firepower
SuF Atomic Breath 45cm 8xBPMWTKD3 AA4+ (FxF)
Adv Atomic Breath 45cm 4xBPMWTKD3 AA5+ (FxF)
Dbl Atomic Breath 45cm 3xBPMWTKD3 AA6+ (FxF)
Tail Swipe (15cm) CC or FF MWTKD3 (RxR)
Claw Attacks CC 2xCCMW (FxF)
Notes: DC 15, Reinforced Armor, Fearless, Walker, Thick Rear Armor, 6xActivations, Regenerates, Animal Instincts

G1.0 Godzilla Special Rules

G1.1 Activations
Each turn Godzilla gets to use six activations, in other words treat him like he was six separate formations. Godzilla cannot retain, and cannot take back to back activations unless no enemy formations remain to activate. Otherwise treat Godzilla like a normal formation as far as activating, orders, and movement are concerned.

G1.2 Regenerate
If Godzilla takes a Marshal Action roll as normal to remove BMs, but in addition Godzilla gets to back a number of lost DCs equal to the roll of a 1D3. So yes in a Marshal Action Godzilla removes 1D6 BMs, and gets back 1D3 lost DCs.

In the Rally Phase Godzilla removes BMs as normal, and he gets back up to three lost DCs. Even if Godzilla fails his Rally roll he still gets the three free lost DCs back. In all cases Godzilla cannot get back more DCs then he starts with.

G1.3 Atomic Breath
The type of Atomic Breath attack Godzilla gets to use is based upon whatever his order is for that activation.
SuF (Sustained Fire): Use this line for the Breath Weapon and Godzilla does not get a +1 to hit for being on sustained fire.
Adv (Advance): Use this line for the Breath Attack and Godzilla gets a normal attack, no modifiers.
Dbl (Double and Marshal): Use this line for the Breath Weapon and Godzilla does not get a -1 to hit for either the Double or the Marshal action.
Godzilla?s AA attack is based upon whatever order he is on when it is used, at the start of each turn treat his AA attack as if he was on sustained.

G1.4 Animal Instincts
If Godzilla is Broken, or fails an Initiative Test, then roll 1D6 and consult the chart below when it is Godzilla?s turn to activate. After rolling carry out the action designated by the roll.
(1) Godzilla goes on a Sustained Fire action, turns to face the nearest enemy formation. Then roll 1D6, and on a roll of 4+ Godzilla shoots at that formation. If Godzilla is broken he cannot shoot.

(2) Godzilla goes on an Advance Order and moves toward the nearest enemy formation, he will not enter any units ZOC, but will stop outside it instead. Then roll 1D6, and on a roll of 4+ Godzilla shoots at that formation. If Godzilla is broken he cannot shoot.

(3) Godzilla goes on an Double Order and moves toward the nearest enemy formation, he will not enter any units ZOC, but will stop outside it. Then roll 1D6, and on a roll of 4+ Godzilla shoots at that formation. If Godzilla is broken he cannot shoot.

(4) Godzilla goes on an Engage Order and moves to engage the nearest enemy formation, and will enter enemy ZOCs, and will attempt to get into base contact with that enemy formation. Godzilla will barge to get his full movement. If Godzilla gets within 15cms of the target formation then an assault is carried out, if Godzilla doesn?t get within 15cms of the target formation that?s it his action for this round is over.

(5) Godzilla goes on a Marshal Order, carries out a rally as normal, and then moves toward the nearest enemy formation. Godzilla will not enter any units ZOC, but will stop outside it instead. If Godzilla is Broken then carry out a rally as you would for the end phase, yes that?s right Godzilla can rally in the middle of the turn, and if he is successful then he will move toward the nearest enemy formation and will not enter any units ZOC, but will stop outside it instead. If Godzilla fails to rally from being broken he does nothing.

(6) Godzilla goes on a Marshal Order, carries out a rally as normal, and then shoots at the nearest enemy formation. If Godzilla is Broken then carry out a rally as you would for the end phase, yes that?s right Godzilla can rally in the middle of the turn, and if he is successful then he shoots at the nearest enemy formation. If Godzilla fails to rally from being broken he does nothing.

G1.4 Destroying Buildings
To destroy a building Godzilla must carry out an assault CC on the building. If the building contains troops he ignores them as all of his attacks are going to be used against the building. If troops are between Godzilla and the building he barges through those troops to get to the building, Godzilla may only do this if he makes base contact with the building.

The Building is treated as the target formation of Godzilla?s assault so all other troops are treated as providing supporting fires only, though if they have been barged they use their CC instead of their FF attack. Carry out all supporting attacks FIRST and if Godzilla isn?t killed or broken by these attacks (getting 1xBM for each lost DC immediately) then he automatically destroys the building, no roll needed. If troops are in the building when it is destroyed they make a normal save to see if they survive it?s destruction. Replace the former intact building with a rubbled building, or just rubble.

Overview of Campaign

Be kind to your friend(s) after you have pulled the Godzilla model out and placed it on the table in the first scenario. Tell them it is Godzilla, he is treated as a WE, has a movement of 10cms, has six activations to use each turn, has a Strategy Rating of one, and an Initiative Rating of one. Tell them from that point on they will have to learn what he is capable of by fighting against him.

Now in the first scenario you actually hold all the cards as your friend(s) have no idea what is going to work against this monster. This should give you more then enough of an edge to cut right through them and destroy the Power Plant in plenty of time, while they experiment trying to stop you.

Things get a bit tougher in the second scenario because your friend(s) will have developed a plan to deal with Godzilla, and while the counters they use may not be totally effective, they will definitely be better organized going about it. This alone is going to make things tougher on you, just hope they don?t stumble on a real good tactic to slow you down, in the end you should still be able to get off the opposite table edge.

In the last scenario your friend(s) will have finally developed some effective tactics, and discovered at least one of your weaknesses, and you can count on them exploiting it to the max. Also you have to destroy all seven buildings before the end of turn six which means you have to get into town before the end of turn four cause it is going to take at least two turns to destroy all of the buildings.

Advice? I am not going to give you any, hey you?ve already got a big advantage to start with!

Good Luck, and have Fun, I did.

Jaldon :oo

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 Post subject: Oh No they say he's got to.........
PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 12:24 am 
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Nice !

However, with the guys I play with you would have to change Godzilla for a normal army for there to be a twist at the end of that campaign. :p

Still, I admire you for working out the rules for Godzilla - we would just fudge a result as we played it out.  

"...more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules."

"The only rules that really matter are these: what a man can do and what a man can't do."

"You didn't beat me. You ignored the rules of engagement. In a fair fight, I'd kill you."
"That's not much incentive for me to fight fair, then, is it?"

etc. ad nauseam.

Orde

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 Post subject: Oh No they say he's got to.........
PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 3:27 am 
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Hilarious. Rules for Godzilla! I wonder if you could do a recreation of the Godzilla vs. Mecha-Godzilla movie! ;)

Adam


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 Post subject: Oh No they say he's got to.........
PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 6:09 am 
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Oh Tas and Maksim will love this ! :laugh:

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