Chaos questions |
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dafrca
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Post subject: Chaos questions  Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 2:16 am |
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Xavi,
What I have found is that the firepower and transport speed even it is only used in the first two turns is well worth the added cost. Of course my use for the mech infantry is based around getting troops to the objective as soon as I can.
dafrca
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Cuban Commissar
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Post subject: Chaos questions Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 3:31 am |
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I have 3 Mechcanized companies.
Are they worth it. Every bit.
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Legion 4
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Post subject: Chaos questions Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 3:53 am |
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Once Troops dismount in our system, the tracks become a separate unit. We've always done it that way since SM1, and I incorporated activation since then ('90). If a rule is unrealistic we change it. I know how infantry works ...  Or should ... 
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dafrca
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Post subject: Chaos questions Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 4:57 am |
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| Quote (Legion 4 @ 08 2004 Sep.,19:53) | | Once Troops dismount in our system, the tracks become a separate unit. ? |
I do not like this idea for EA. It is a cheep way of getting extra activations. I would keep it as it is, the tracks stay as part of the formation. But that is just me. 
dafrca
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Xavi
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Post subject: Chaos questions Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 8:18 am |
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Ok, 2 things:
1) I just reread the rules and I was wrong and Serps was right: you can take up to one transport per UNIT in the formation maximum, so his extra transport capacity is a sound move towards keeping the formation mobil. Good one man
2) I agree with L4 and Dafrca at the same time. I think that it is a cheap way to get activations as well, bnut OTOH I think I would use it! It is much more realistic. And well, they are not *that* cheap in any case. You are paying 150 points minimum for a poo formation of 7 chimeras.
It seems that most people agree that even if you might lose the capacity, the extra mobility is more than worthwile. Actually I was NOT questioning that. Sorry if I have been unclear  What I was questioning was the need of having *all* units mechanized. It seems to me that as a spearhead it is good to have ONE of those for every 3000 points or so in your army, but that more than one mechanized formation is overkill and you'd be better taking a regular infantry company supported by a 150 points support formation instead. That was my point. One= good. More than one= overkill and not necessarily good since you invest points in transport capacity that are not really needed or useful.
Regards,
Xavi
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Warmaster Nice
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Post subject: Chaos questions Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 11:46 am |
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Yes but then again your Guard infantry doesn't have much long range weaponry so it may easily be a couple of turns before theey are even within range of the enemy. Also it will be much longer before they are able to capture an objective and dig in. It really depends on your style of play. Footslogging IG easily become orks with worse CC abilities.
Though the Chimera may not be a battletank in terms of fireppower it is still a fairly capable transport veichle. Also remember that IG have no armour so the transport's 5+ save is more than welcome when your slow infantry is facing artillery barrages. Vulnerable to AT yes. But rather that than smashed into a pulp by the artillery which is allways more effective against "softer targets".
Depending on what type of enemy you will be facing their efficiency may vary but personally I'd take a Mechanized formation over foootsloggers anytime if I have the points.
Maybe future IG lists like the Cadians will have larger infantry companies capable of soaking up more damage which could be an advantage.
Cheers!
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iblisdrax
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Post subject: Chaos questions Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 2:39 pm |
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I havent come across many situations where I desperately needed more transport (cause some had been destroyed) to move my formation quickly. But, that may be because I generally move my mech formations to the objectives, or preferably cover near the objective, and dismount them, and that is the way they stay. There just arent too many situations for the Guard to do quick mount-dismount-mount maneuvers, that is best left for the Space Marines and Eldar.
But thats just me.
my 2cents,
iblisdrax
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CyberShadow
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Post subject: Chaos questions Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 2:51 pm |
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To be honest, if your transported formation isbeing shot at before they have got where they are going, you have not planed well enough. Once the fighting starts, your troops should be in the open air, to make maximum use of cover and firepower.
I would rule against the transports being a seperate unit, but perhaps allowing them to detach and just hold ground on defensive orders only?
However, the only place that I would make transports seperate is in the case of Stormtroopers. Just the thought of the aircraft having to hover to stay within range of the troops seems surreal!
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Legion 4
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Post subject: Chaos questions Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 3:51 pm |
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Always do what works for you ...
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Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
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dafrca
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Post subject: Chaos questions Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 6:00 pm |
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| Quote (CyberShadow @ 09 2004 Sep.,06:51) | | However, the only place that I would make transports seperate is in the case of Stormtroopers. Just the thought of the aircraft having to hover to stay within range of the troops seems surreal! |
Have to agree with the thought here. I play a game called Stargrunt and in that game your chopper/grav transport is a seperate "formation" that has been given the ability to transport other "formations".
It does seem odd that the flyers would be stuck like ballons on strings.
dafrca
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dafrca
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Post subject: Chaos questions Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 6:40 pm |
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| Quote (Legion 4 @ 09 2004 Sep.,07:51) | | Always do what works for you ... |
I agree with you L4. I think we should each do as we think works best for each of us.
On point I would make is: Make sure you understand all of the effects of your change/house rule. Often when you make one change it will require more changes because often rules are interlinked.
dafrca
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Xavi
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Post subject: Chaos questions Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2004 10:58 pm |
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Ok, let's return to the topic after this wild ranting series on slightly related issues
For what I have seen people say, it doesn't matter if the transports die or are an attachment that are almost worthless when they are not ferrying your units from point A to point B. This is because the movement phase that you are almost bond to have with them (first or second turn, before enemy fire starts to rain on you) and that allows you to get hold of one or more target objectives is more than worth it.
I feel inclined to agree with the above statement, but this rises a related topic: is then an infantry company worthless? In general they are cheaper (250 vs 400 points without upgrades) and the upgrades are also cheaper overall, since you don't need to buy transport capacity for them.
I was thinking to bulk an army with pure infantry depending on how people reacts to it. Obviously it is not an immediate issue, since I still have top get the starting force (less than a month for that now, wohoo!!) but I am looking forward to a larget force, so that might be important in a not so far away time.
Do infantry formations with, say a fire support platoon upgrade worth it or the chimera dudes are still prefered over them? We take into consideration that there is already one mechanized unit, so thise dudes would be a second wave to relieve the first one when they come under heavy pressure from the enemy.
Regards,
Xavi
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dafrca
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Post subject: Chaos questions Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2004 12:07 am |
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| Quote (Xavi @ 10 2004 Sep.,14:58) | Ok, let's return to the topic after this wild ranting series on slightly related issues
[snip]
...but this rises a related topic: is then an infantry company worthless? |
No, the infantry company is worth the points in some games. In a true tournament where I do not know who I will face and we are using the basic tournament set up, I will take the mech over the troops.
However, if I know the game we are playing is a defender vs. attacker then a defender the infantry could be worth more to me.
For me, the value of a unit or formation is relative to the game I am playing. I remember one game where I was playing bugs. I would have given anything to trade in my Shadowswords for my Baneblades. But against the Eldar player I killed his titan and his cobras quickly with the Shadowswords.
That is why I collected more points then I will ever play (unless Primarch does his 100,000 per side and I get to go) because I can switch in and out what I believe will work for each game I play. Sometimes tank heavy, sometimes Titan heavy, etc.
That's my penny's worth.
dafrca
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Xavi
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Post subject: Chaos questions Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2004 12:56 am |
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YUp, I agree with you. For the first formation in any army I would take a mechanized formation as well. Adds flexibility. The doubt was if once you already have a mechanized company it would be worth it to take an infantry formation without transport capacity, investing the extra points in some other stuff like upgrades (like a fire support formation), or if it would be better to take an other mechanizxed company instead. This is assuming a "tournament style" army, without knowing which specific escenario you are gonna play before the battle. In general this is my situation in most fantasdy and battlefleet games I play. I don't know the escenario or if I will be attacker defender or what until I go to the club and talk with the other player.
Xavi
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iblisdrax
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Post subject: Chaos questions Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2004 1:32 am |
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Remember , the infantry co can be garrisoned at the beginning of the game, which, in the case of the IG with no armor, is very usefull. Also, you can use an infantry co to screen artillery and protect your near edge objective, where speed is not necessary.
my 2cents,
iblisdrax
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