New Experimental Rules |
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Serps
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Post subject: New Experimental Rules  Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2004 8:16 am |
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I like the barrage ER, not sure about the assault rules, but I don't like the ork light vehicle rules.
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CyberShadow
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Post subject: New Experimental Rules Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2004 9:07 pm |
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Location: Singapore
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I only skim-read these, but does anyone know exactly why they came about? I am a little worried that after only half a year, we are getting core rules updates...
_________________ https://www.cybershadow.ninja - A brief look into my twisted world, including wargames and beyond. https://www.net-armageddon.org - The official NetEA (Epic Armageddon) site and resource.
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iblisdrax
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Post subject: New Experimental Rules Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2004 1:28 am |
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Site was down, couldnt check em out. 
my 2cents,
iblisdrax
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Serps
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Post subject: New Experimental Rules Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2004 1:44 am |
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Location: Sydney, Australia
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| Quote (CyberShadow @ 05 2004 Sep.,07:07) | | I only skim-read these, but does anyone know exactly why they came about? I am a little worried that after only half a year, we are getting core rules updates... |
Insufficient playtesting of corner cases.
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Markconz
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Post subject: New Experimental Rules Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2004 2:14 am |
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| Purestrain |
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Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2003 10:43 pm
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Location: New Zealand
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Well there is a rules abuse issue with the assault rules at present - in brief you can cause massive damage to other units by risking only one of your own. ?This needs fixing, however the current proposal does not do this.
Barrage Rule - hmmm, I like the idea behind it because the current barrage table is a little broken (4 BP gives two templates, 3BP gives one), but this rule needs more work. ?I do really like the idea of being able to fire dispersed or concentrated fire sheafs. ?Barrages have always been contentious in EA, though the curent rules are acceptable IMO.
Ork light vehicle halve blast marker for casualties rule - unneccesary and bad case of rules creep IMO. Apparantly it is to make mixed ork units more viable. ?Currently EA players tend to have their speed freaks race off in units of their own, which I personally have no problem with! Even in 40k, ork players I have played tend to try flanking moves with big mobs of vehicles separate to the infantry. Most people are against this rule, including us ork players which says something!
Hit allocation exp rule is a real clunker IMO. ?It is an attempt to streamline hit allocation so that their is one universal procedure. However, infantry being able to screen tanks from AT shots is ridiculous. Current rules are fine, and most people are also against this exp rule.
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Legion 4
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Post subject: New Experimental Rules Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2004 5:50 am |
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Location: Ohio - USA
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Everything you say there, makes sense to me ...
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iblisdrax
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Post subject: New Experimental Rules Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2004 5:58 am |
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The barrage rules, well, maybe. The hit allocation change , abosolutely not. This is exactly how we used to play epic40k, and it was the one rule that I hated. You basically lined your armies up, screening your tanks with cheap cannon fodder infantry, and closed with the enemy. The army with the best dice rolls usually won.
I too wonder why they are messing with the core rules even before the first expansion. Is it because alot of people whine about them over on the SG forums? I dont know. 
my 2cents,
iblisdrax
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"Have Leman Reuss, will travel"
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Markconz
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Post subject: New Experimental Rules Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2004 7:11 am |
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| Purestrain |
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| Quote (iblisdrax @ 05 2004 Sep.,05:58) | ?The hit allocation change , abosolutely not. ?This is exactly how we used to play epic40k, and it was the one rule that I hated. ?You basically lined your armies up, screening your tanks with cheap cannon fodder infantry, and closed with the enemy. ?The army with the best dice rolls usually won. ?
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Yes it is especially strange that Jervis would suggest this hit allocation amendment, in light of the fact that biggest official change to the epic40k rules (in Firepower mag 1) was that anti-tank could ignore infantry and target vehicles!!! (Tho the cost of antitank went up 5 points).
Maybe I should point this out on the SG forum.
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Legion 4
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Post subject: New Experimental Rules Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2004 4:37 pm |
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That is a good point ... maybe Jervis should know ?
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Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
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Markconz
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Post subject: New Experimental Rules Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2004 12:05 am |
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| Purestrain |
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Location: New Zealand
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I've edited my post on the SG forum to include the info.
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dafrca
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Post subject: New Experimental Rules Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2004 12:26 am |
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| Quote (Markconz @ 05 2004 Sep.,16:05) | | I've edited my post on the SG forum to include the info. |
That was nice, now they might see it.
dafrca
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dafrca
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Post subject: New Experimental Rules Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2004 4:18 am |
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Well I have been watching the threads over there on the rules and in some cases adding my penny's worth. Seems in some cased Jervis has elected to leave well enough alone. In a few others he is doing up a formal document and will be posting it to the "vault" for formal testing.
Just thought I would let everyone know.
dafrca
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"Every Man is a But Spark in the Darkness"
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Dooglebug
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Post subject: New Experimental Rules Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2004 6:25 pm |
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I have to say I'm a little surprised by this aswell. I mean what was the 2 years of open playtesting for if we are changeing the rules already. There is something to be said for these living rule books but having an annual review will very quickly become tiring, as very quickly whats in our paid for hard copy of the rules becomes invalidated by a flood of minor and probably for the most part unneccesary changes. The erratas will soon mount up. I hope Jervis can restrain his impulses to tinker with the rules accept to clear things up or tackle very specific problems. Not everyone who plays follows every development or even plays regularly and I don't want to reach the stage where you and you opponents are playing by different rules as one of you isn't aware of the latest update.
The assault thing is a minor loop hole. It should be looked down on like clipping in Warhammer. Possibly a designers notes should be written about it but there isn't a need to change the rules in a knee jerk fashion. People who exploit it should be castigated.
Both the artillery problem and the weakness of mixed formations were known about and debated for a long time before the book went into press and never fully resolved. Every succesive change to the barrage table make artillery less effective and fails to solve the problem but just changes where the break points lie. The weakness of mixed formations really stems down from people exploiting the inability of units to split fire. It was used as an argument to allow splitting fire but never really examined on its own.
OK vented off now. I'm not saying that changes should not be made at some stage but
1) they must not be rushed through or we'll be back to square 1.
2) they should find a more acceptable way of distributing changes than a living rule book which has its uses but which few in there right mind will print out in there entirity. Maybe a pamphlet released as a pdf and free with fanmag with all core changes to the rules from the rule book itself, including up to date and correct reference sheets for use in game.
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Legion 4
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Post subject: New Experimental Rules Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2004 7:21 pm |
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Too a point I agree with you. ?Nothing more annoying than "rewritten history", or "Orwellian Newspeak" ! ?However, based on past Epic history, it was/is inevitable. ?And I always thought the E:A artillery rules were weak and the close combat rules questionable. ?That being said, that is why we played our own "living hybrid" set of rules. ?And as always, do what works for you ... not me ... ? ? 
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Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
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Xavi
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Post subject: New Experimental Rules Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2004 7:39 pm |
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Nice comment. Why don't you put it in the E:A development forum?
I don't control much about the rules yet as to comment on most of the changes, but actually the light vehicle formation issue I don't see it as a problem at all. LV are used on their own usually, so it is perfectly sensitive with how they SHOULD be used to place them in their own formations. My impression at least. Wanting to force them into infantry/armour formations is changing the rules unnecessarily.
And anything with tables is bound to have breaking points. It has always happened in WQHFB and 40k as well.
Regards,
Xavi
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