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Legion 4
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Post subject: First pictures of Epic Armageddon Game  Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2003 5:24 am |
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Some very good points Primarch. And I agree with CyberShadow, Titans are a bit "silly" but somewhat "fun". But based on my background and experience, standardization works for me. Like Naval vessels, all have standardized configurations based on class, like we see with the Forge World Wolf & Jackel class Warhounds. ?Oh yes, close combat weapons should stay in the bitz box. Titans are weapons platforms, land battle ships, used for fire support IMO ...  ?That being said, I have almost 2 dozen Imperial Titans, of all types, and they have a wide array of fire support systems, based on the SM1/AT1 codexs. ?And that works for us. ?
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dafrca
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Post subject: First pictures of Epic Armageddon Game Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2003 6:16 am |
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| Quote (Legion 4 @ 22 2003 April,21:24) | | ...standardization works for me. Like Naval vessels, all have standized configurations based on class.... |
Good point. I had not thought about the link between Navy Ships and Titans. Does make a logical role connection.
dafrca
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Legion 4
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Post subject: First pictures of Epic Armageddon Game Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2003 3:04 pm |
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Yes, we've always felt that way. We see Warhounds as Destroyers, Reavers = Cruisers, Warlords = Battle Ships and the Imperator is a Super Battle Ship like the IJN Yamato. ?Like I have said before, we try to base our Hybrid rule system on a "melding" of Reality & Sci-Fi (with very little fantasy). ?So keeping a "this is like that" sort of mind set keeps us on track ... ?
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dafrca
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Post subject: First pictures of Epic Armageddon Game Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2003 5:16 pm |
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OK, I?m going to make a left turn here but follow me and I?ll tie it back in.
A few weeks ago in our games one player had his Warhound destroyed in an assault by troops. The player was very upset as he felt the Warhound could not be destroyed by ?just troops?.
(OK the tie in :-) However, if we think of the Warhound as a Naval ship then it makes more sense. You would not expect a) A destroyer to be in a hand to hand fight and b) a Destroyer is made for distance fighting not close in work.
Anyway, I will share this idea with the group.
dafrca
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Legion 4
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Post subject: First pictures of Epic Armageddon Game Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2003 6:09 pm |
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Exactly, the Warhound, like Destroyers (DDs,DEs) at Normandy and other amphib. ops, would be attacking targets to support the landings and/or screening the larger ships from subs and other vessels. So we only have 1 or 2 Titans per side (if any), a DD is usually tasked to support a BN size force (600-1000 troops), so you would not see that many involved in an epic game if you use that as general rule. ?Titans would have 2 basic missions, 1) Destroy other Titans that could interfer with the ground forces' mission(s), and 2) support the ground troops as a fire support platform, by destroying enemy ground formations. ? That being said, US/UK special ops forces are trained to clandestinely board enemy vessels, for a number of missions, one being to set demo charges timed to detonate after the force egresses. ?Or Spec. Ops can place demo charges below the water line on the hull and take out a ship without boarding (this happened a number of times in WWII). ?So that would be the only way troops could take out such a large target. ?The Warhound trying to "swat" the Assault Troops like King Kong on the Empire State Building is pure cinema ... Some food for thought ... ?Also a simple "Grunt" rule - the best weapon against a tank is another tank ... the best weapon against a Titan is ... ?
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Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
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Tas
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Post subject: First pictures of Epic Armageddon Game Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2003 3:43 am |
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Lot sof good points and the naval similie is a good one, but as a professional in this area I'd like to put some alternatives to you while not necessarily having to advertise the obvious supremacy of the Navy or break any security regs:D
>a) A destroyer to be in a hand to hand fight and b) a >Destroyer is made for distance fighting not close in work.
Yeah well, thats why we have lot sof different weapon systems. What about swarm attacks by fast boats? They are a real threat, just like Inf to the Titan, and inf close assault to any armoured vehicle for that matter.
Yes naval vessels have a 'standard" fit of weapons systems, but gun and missile magazine ammo can be changed to optimise for a specific role (Anti Air, Tomohawk, ASW etc) as can the helo can fitted for specific roles. Titans by fluff definition are made to be modifiable and adaptable to the situation.
So in my own round-about way, I get back to dafrca's orig question- to which my answer is a resounding NO I am very UNhappy, I loved the old way of titans and the whole Titan tging- hit locations, special criticals etc etc. They new system saves time, but I WANT to spend time on my TITAN who at 1k point cost 1/5th of my 5k army...
Bring back TLegions, or hurry up ATIII...the new system is rubbish 
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Legion 4
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Post subject: First pictures of Epic Armageddon Game Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2003 5:09 am |
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signius
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Post subject: First pictures of Epic Armageddon Game Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2003 11:49 am |
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You all have some good points. However, a destroyer never walked onto the battlefeild, stomping soldiers underfoot. 
I still don't agree with standardization of units. If this becomes the case, what does it mean for conversions? I am not about to spend hours converting a particular unit only to agree to a standard for another. Anyway, why would there be a standarization of some units but not others? It doesn't make any sense to say that there is one type of titan but, there are thirty-eight thousand types of LR tanks. The same fluff around the reasons for there being a bazillion variants of the LR should apply to all units. A titan that sits on some planet somewhere away from the bulk of the fleet is bound to be modified for any number of reasons. But that's just me.
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Jimbo
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Post subject: First pictures of Epic Armageddon Game Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2003 1:19 pm |
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| Quote (signius @ 24 2003 April,11:49) | | Anyway, why would there be a standarization of some units but not others? It doesn't make any sense to say that there is one type of titan but, there are thirty-eight thousand types of LR tanks. The same fluff around the reasons for there being a bazillion variants of the LR should apply to all units. |
one possible (fluff) argument could be is that Leman Russ are Imperial Guard and they are willing to "convert" their vehicles to meet their battlefield needs, whereas the Titan Legions would see conversion as a sacrilige and defilement of the machine spirit.
A titan that sits on some planet somewhere away from the bulk of the fleet is bound to be modified for any number of reasons. But that's just me. ? |
me too
there is the GW fluff and then there is your own...
my Space Marines for example have camo on their vehicles (black and green) and camo nets
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Legion 4
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Post subject: First pictures of Epic Armageddon Game Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2003 3:37 pm |
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A lot of good discussion, guys ! That's what the Forum's all about. ?Well like I said, I guess everybody should do what works for them, that's what we have been doing forever. ?Of all the Titans, Gargants, etc. that I have, no two are exactly same, but again, we use the AT1/SM1 system that we started with back in '90. And I know that Destroyers have to stay in the ocean and can't go on land,  but there is no paradigm in reality that we could think of to explain why Titans exist !!! ? Signius, contact me off line, I have some?$ with your name on it for some Stompers & Guard Towers. ?I have not bought anything lately for Epic and I need to feed my habit ? !!!
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Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
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Tas
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Post subject: First pictures of Epic Armageddon Game Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2003 3:48 am |
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>It appears the E-A experiment has as many advocates as detractors ...
Hey dont get me wrong, I've been playtesting for about 5 months and I think they are a greats et of rules. A few bugs to iron our for sure, but then all games do at this stage.
My comments about the Titan rules are restricted to that area in isolation. I really liked the detailed titan stuff in earlier editions and want it back. The priority for the playtesting is (and correctly so) the basic mechanics. The extras can be fleshed out later.
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Legion 4
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Post subject: First pictures of Epic Armageddon Game Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2003 3:41 pm |
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Good point, either way, as I have said before, I look forward to it's release, if for no other reason than the new models ! ?
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Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
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