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Chaos hell talon
penal battalion
 Post subject: Chaos hell talon
PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2004 4:12 pm 
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Duck! Being a popular key word in most armies.
The Kroot might make a very loose anology with the 'common perception' of Gurkhas within UK forces. Good field craft,historicaly happy to use CC, allied but not mercs'and a wonderful militry myth that surrounds them within popular culture.
Cheers.

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Legion 4
 Post subject: Chaos hell talon
PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2004 9:01 pm 
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O.K. Tom, let's see what I can do ? ???? ?:;): ? Japan : Busheito/Samurai (sp.) spirit was their saving grace, ground force weapons and equipment were low tech and behind the times. Logictics support - very poor, troops could live off the and and did in many cases. Good planners but if things went arwy would go to the Banzai charge. Officers still carried swords !? ?Could work well in jungle terrain and used infiltration tactics well. Were willing to die to the last man (and did) in the defense. ?That made them hard to defeat. ?Understood very little about modern mechanized warfare. ? ?Overall rating (from H/Channal Historian) - Gifted Amateurs . ? ?Germany: ?Invented the Blitzkrieg - modern combined arms warfare. Very good planners, very aggresive in offensive ops and the masters of the mobile defense. ?Willing to take casualites if needed. Very good equipment overall but lacked production capabilities (especially after repeated Allied air raids !) to fight a multi-front war. ?Much of their equipment was too complicated to produce, maintain and repair. But without a doubt produced some of the best infantry, armor and artillery troops in the world, at that time. ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?U.K.: Very methodical, good planning. ?Good equipment, but needed US Lend Lease to help out. Generally fought well on all fronts. ?Troops were generally very brave. But in the early part of the war, many of their leaders were fighting the last war and occasionally predictable. Good in both offense and defense. ?Usually very dependable and motivated. ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? U.S.S.R : ?Lots of infantry, tanks and artillery. ?Willing to lose lots men and equipment. ?Produced arguably the best tank of the war - the T-34 series. Very aggressive when well lead. ?Dogged in the defense. ?Production capabilities rivaled USA's and still accepted US/UK Lend Lease. ?Understood Mass. 70% (+) of all German casualities happened on the Eastern Front. The U.S.S.R. won WWII according to a H/Channel Historian. ? ? ? ? USA: I'm biased but will only say that the US had huge production capablities and 66% of the troops were drafted. Plus good leadership ...

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netepic
 Post subject: Chaos hell talon
PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2004 9:35 pm 
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Very interesting - and just what I needed for DoD!

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iblisdrax
 Post subject: Chaos hell talon
PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2004 12:55 am 
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Great Job L4!  As a fellow History Channel devotee, I concur with your synopsis.   I might add that the Germans did have excellent leadership for the most part, except for the lone crazed dictator that mucked things up for them. :)

my 2cents,

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primarch
 Post subject: Chaos hell talon
PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2004 1:26 am 
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Hi!

Its still a very heated debate in some parts of who "won" WWII. Stalin wanted Operation Overlord to Ocurr in summer 1943, the allies, unprepared (or unwilling) gave them the Invasion of Sicily. Many argue that by the time D-day ocurred, the eastern front and thus the war had been decided (Kursk having ocurred in 1943).

As with most things of this nature, after many years of reading on the subject the truth usually lies in that it was a combination of both sides cooperation. While many critical battles were won by the soviets alone, could they have made it to Berlin without lend lease parts for their american made trucks? Or the Brits and American tieing up scarse german resources in the atlantic and european theater? Would D-day have even been possible if Russia had not destroyed the cream of the german panzer core in Stalingrad and Kursk? Russian production while close to the USA's was at 100% capacity, they couldn't produce more even if they wanted. American industry was still at 50% full throttle by wars end and acounted for 50% of ALL material made by BOTH sides in the war (prodigious!).

In my view it was a team effort. The consequences for either side if the crucial merits each side gave were not made would have spelled disaster for the remaining party.

Imagine if the Germans DID reach Moscow in 1941, by ignoring the Kiev pocket or diverting forces for OKW North to Center? Would the US been able to realistically invade mainland Europe with a defeated Russia?

Without the dominate British/US airpower that brought german industry underground and kept wonderous technology delayed from the battlefield, would the T-34 be all that great. Imagine the new jet powered HS "tank-killer" in service by late 43 early 44 and its effect on the battlefield.

The germans through their leadership, technology edge and sheer brass "balls" were one tough cookie. I dont think either side could say they could have taken it out without the crucial help of the other. There are simply to many overlapping variables in such a complex cooperative venture to simply say one side "won it".

Great topic, thanks!

Primarch

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Legion 4
 Post subject: Chaos hell talon
PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2004 4:52 am 
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Yes, I agree with you both ... WWII is still a subject of great interest to most historians and there are volumes yet to write.   And to think this topic started out as a Tau rule question !  :;):

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Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
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MaksimSmelchak
 Post subject: Chaos hell talon
PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2004 2:40 pm 
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L-4,

And to think this topic started out as a Tau rule question!


I was sort of hoping that the topic would RETURN to the Tau as well!  :D

Between you and Primarch, my friends, can derail ANY TOPIC!

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Legion 4
 Post subject: Chaos hell talon
PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2004 2:46 pm 
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Well, I try to stay On Topic ... but I'm easily deflected ! :blush:  :{  < hangs head in shame > I Know too much for my own good ... :(

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Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
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netepic
 Post subject: Chaos hell talon
PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2004 4:29 pm 
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My fault! I made him do it at gun point...  :blues:

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dafrca
 Post subject: Chaos hell talon
PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2004 7:53 pm 
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But look at the bright side, it is those side trips that help make this a community and not just a rules forum.  :D

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primarch
 Post subject: Chaos hell talon
PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2004 10:25 pm 
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Hi!

Why not move or open the corresponding topic to the general discussions area and that should suffice.

One problem with old hands like L4 and myself is that there is very little "new" to talk about sometimes in the realm of "epic". Sure new models, painting and other such things is what keeps us talking, but there's nothing like a good debate about military history....  :D

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MaksimSmelchak
 Post subject: Chaos hell talon
PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2004 1:52 am 
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But look at the bright side, it is those side trips that help make this a community and not just a rules forum.  


Dafrca,

You're right, of course!  :D

Shalom,
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Legion 4
 Post subject: Chaos hell talon
PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2004 5:08 am 
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Thanks Guys !  We're all one big happy Epic site !!! :;):  :D  :)  :;):  :laugh:

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Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
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netepic
 Post subject: Chaos hell talon
PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2004 10:36 am 
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Like the Waltons in 6mm....

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vanvlak
 Post subject: Chaos hell talon
PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2004 10:41 am 
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Quote (netepic @ 21 2004 May,11:36)
Like the Waltons in 6mm....

oh my chaos gods! shudder!  :oo

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