Chaos hell talon |
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Athmos
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Post subject: Chaos hell talon  Posted: Mon May 17, 2004 3:59 pm |
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i must add that they seem to lack an effective way to work against armored vehicules and warengines. Go grab a pair of warhound and some landraiders and whirlwind. That should be quite buggering for the Xenos.
Warhound should be able to mow down their formation with their Mega bolters, and plasma gun should be effective aginst crisis suit. I can only recommend you to read their current list (v3) 2 or 3 times.
The TAU being able to withdraw from CC and being able to shoot at incoming engaging formation make em real hard to assault unless you get some freaking FF values and good support. I'd advise you to pound their formation a good time before assaulting.
For what i've heard the Manta is not very effective but it's quite tough; depending on the size of the battle, you might want to grab some heavy firepower to scare the monster; a Warlord will do, but its quite expensive; i wouln't advise it below 3500Pts.
Hope it help !
I'm eager to read the report...
Athmos
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penal battalion
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Post subject: Chaos hell talon Posted: Mon May 17, 2004 7:43 pm |
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It's no longer the age of the bayonet! I'm with L4 on the firepower front. Let 'em come and shoot 'em up. There will be plenty of ways round the Tau. Artillery seems to be one of their bugbears.
Cheers.
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Zulus' Sir! fousands of 'em!
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Legion 4
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Post subject: Chaos hell talon Posted: Tue May 18, 2004 4:51 am |
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G/W has created a generation of gamers with games (?) like 40K being the biggest offender, that know nothing about combined arms, fire and maneuver and late 20th Century warfare. ?Athmos and Penal Bn (we agree !), have valid points. ?Indirect fire assets (artillery, orbital fire support) and CAS (close air support) working with infantry and armor task forces is what modern warfare (1940 on) is all about. ?Titans are very heavy mobile weapons platforms, they should be packing nothing but ranged weapons to destroy other titans and provide fire support to the ground forces. ?(Titan close combat weapons should be used as fishing weights.) ?The Tau Manta is their version of a Titan. ?Close combat in Epic should be rare, as opposed to 40k, which is a child's game. ?Use your ranged weapons on all units, if he tries to close (like Orks, 'Nids, etc. tend to do), shoot him. ?Use terrain to your advantage, get behind cover and use firepower from all your assets and maneuver to his flanks. ?I've played 100s of Epic games with various sets of rules. ?E:A appears to be one of the best. No matter what army I used (I have 9 now), I utilized a form of these tactics (as Tas put it - L4's SoTR). ?
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Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
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primarch
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Post subject: Chaos hell talon Posted: Tue May 18, 2004 8:57 pm |
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Hi!
The 40k universe has always focused on hand to hand combat. After all, its basically fantasy races with a sci-fi bent. But the attitudes didn't change..
...rush forth and hack. Fun for a couple of times but quickly tiresome.
Primarch
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dafrca
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Post subject: Chaos hell talon Posted: Wed May 19, 2004 12:21 am |
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| Quote (primarch @ 18 2004 May,12:57) | | The 40k universe has always focused on hand to hand combat. After all, its basically fantasy races with a sci-fi bent. |
I have been in this from the start of 40k and I agree with Primarch. The whole 40k universe is based on the idea that real man/ork/Elf/Tau/etc. fights face to face. No long range kaboom until we talk about the Exterminatus. Then it is the king of long range weapons.
dafrca
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primarch
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Post subject: Chaos hell talon Posted: Wed May 19, 2004 1:08 am |
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Hi!
The 40k universe is more like a medieval fantasy world than real sci-fi. You have knights (SM), wizards (psykers), elves, dwarves (well...used to anyway...  ), monsters (Tyranids) and evil demons (chaos). So fightingthe enemy is close up with swords, axes, halberds and all sorts of medievil weapons that theri only claim to sci-fi is the word "power" before them. Such a universe works more like a standard swords and sorcery one than say a "Star trek/starship trooper" universe.
It was good marketing from GW point, becuase, simply put, traditional sci-fi isnt as popular as "sci-fantasy" due to the more fantastic features. In an odd way hard core sci-fi is too "realistic" or familiar than the sci-fantasy world of warhammer 40k.
Then again its part of the charm that drew us in in the first place...eh? 
Primarch
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Hergrmir
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Post subject: Chaos hell talon Posted: Wed May 19, 2004 3:55 am |
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Well, I think it is part and parcel of the universe of 40k... who would think an Ork that tried to avoid hacking at things and didn't speak Cockney was a real Ork, after all?
That said, it's nice in Epic to be able to use a force that uses firepower mainly.
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Legion 4
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Post subject: Chaos hell talon Posted: Wed May 19, 2004 4:50 am |
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It's a mind set ... regardless of the races being taken from fantasy (so are Klingons, Romulans, etc.), I see tanks, infantry, artillery, etc. ... I don't care if it's Orks or Nazis driving the AFVs. ?The SM1 rules had a very WWII feel as did many of the other rule iterations. ?The Tau are the closest thing to modern forces available in the 40K universe and add a new paradigm to the game fluff. ?Too many gamers see Orks from LotR, not an alien race with ranged weapons. ?When close combat players who think they are playing another version of 40K, runs into a gamer who knows how to use ranged weapons and tactics, it's a one sided slaughter ... and quite enjoyable ... ?
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Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
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Athmos
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Post subject: Chaos hell talon Posted: Wed May 19, 2004 11:09 am |
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well, assault in E:A is not necessarily close combat... It is Firefight most of time, and "modern-style" warfare is still heavy on those.
And if we go back to WWI, there were a lot of close combat indeed, when it comes to "trench cleaning" and/or the ammo was scarce, there were quite some slaughter and butchering with "baillonnette" (I don't know if the word is used as such or not in english, it's that big knife that can be fixed at the end of a rifle).
Athmos
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penal battalion
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Post subject: Chaos hell talon Posted: Wed May 19, 2004 2:54 pm |
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The British army made its name with the tactical use of the bayonet. I don't mind CC in E.A, just that it should not be focused on too much with some races.Orks yea! wade in guys and rip 'em a new hole! Humans on the other hand can CC but would rather blow someones head off. It seems most urban shootings are at CC range, we're a lazy species it's easier to shoot than hack.IMO.
Tyranids, never met them but sound terrifying/fun.
Cheers.
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Zulus' Sir! fousands of 'em!
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Legion 4
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Post subject: Chaos hell talon Posted: Wed May 19, 2004 3:27 pm |
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All good points ... hand-to-hand and close combat are not necessarily the same thing. ?Close Combat occurs in closed terrain like structures. ? Hand-to-hand is just that. ?The Bayonet (that is the English word for what you talk about Athmos) is sometimes used in both cases, however the Firefights in E:A is actually combat that takes place at less than 50-100 meters. ? SWAT type units don't use bayonets, they use close range weapons like SMGs, pistols and shot guns (save for their Sniper Teams and they use long range rifles and ofcourse no Bayonet !). ?We spent very, very little time on bayonet and hand-to-hand training. ?We mostly trained for fire and maneuver. ?But all armies in Epic do have their own "flavor", as did armies in WWII. The Japs, Krauts, Limeys, Yanks, Ruskies etc. all fought in their own unique "styles". ?So I think we are all saying the same thing and generally agree ... in Epic ranged weapons should be the norm and hand-to-hand limited.
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Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
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netepic
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Post subject: Chaos hell talon Posted: Wed May 19, 2004 3:48 pm |
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| Quote (Legion 4 @ 19 2004 May,15:27) | | The Japs, Krauts, Limeys, Yanks, Ruskies etc. all fought in their own unique "styles". |
Out of interest - what would you say those styles were?
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Legion 4
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Post subject: Chaos hell talon Posted: Wed May 19, 2004 3:57 pm |
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netepic
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Post subject: Chaos hell talon Posted: Wed May 19, 2004 4:01 pm |
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Ok - thought it would be a few keywords , bless my ignorance! At least the inquisition would approve.
"He of little mind, has great faith.
He of much thought, begets heresy".
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Legion 4
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Post subject: Chaos hell talon Posted: Wed May 19, 2004 4:05 pm |
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I'll try to keep it to a few key words and sentences ...
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Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
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