While I think this would be a sensible distinction and from Neil's post it seems like this was the intention, in terms of the published rules they're all simply described as 'hits', some of which happen to allow no saves.

The damage/panic distinction would require an explicit FAQ entry or a change to the existing 1.12.7 entry, and it will need some careful wording about No LoF or we'll end up with Deathstrikes being able to target embarked formations...

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I agree with IJW that the apparent intended rules (from Neil) and the RAW don't match, so an FAQ is in order (or errata, not that there's much distinction).

I notice we seem to have scared Dave off not long after he began to give the FAQ a crack- though he was of the opinion that the fearless transport protects the passengers, which is another fun little issue to argue over :p

Assuming we follow Neil's method, I wouldn't say anything about LoS being involved as a reason for why the transported troops can be hacked down- just say that they are valid targets, and leave it at that. Excessive explanation and justification will just lead to further issues, as IJW mentions above.

On a slight tangent, how do people interpret transports that let their transported formations 'shoot'? Does that mean the transported troops can participate in a FF while mounted? (It is shooting, but not a shoot action)

Ok, thanks guys. FWIW, I think the FAQ was written by Neal to cover this case, though in an 'open-ended' manner intended to cover other aspects as well (as is sometimes the case with FAQ), but evidently it needs clarifying.


Perhaps the current FAQ in 1.12.7 could be reworded slightly for clarity and add "irrespective of their location", so would now read

Could we add similar a FAQ to 1.13.4, possibly

I don't think 'non-fearless' needs mentioning because that's already in the Fearless rules. So:

'A. No, they are applied front-to-back to any units in the losing formation irrespective of their location or whether they are being transported.'

'Irrespective of their location' by itself is just going to cause the same issue as the current FAQ.

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LoL, That is why I added "front-to-back"

I don't mind either way about "Fearless", though having the word in the FAQ makes it a little clearer to those less familiar with the rules.

This is very much the exception to the rule, so each case needs to be clearly defined. From memory I think there may only be one or two such transports in existing lists. The Harlequins also have a transport that allows the occupant to shoot and assault (they are actually clinging to the outside), though the stats also make it clear that this transport's occupants are valid targets both for shooting and assault.

Deathstrikes on OW incinerating the Imperiums finest as they arrived to make an air assault was indeed the reason why the rules on OW were revised, together with the targeting of Deathstrikes.
Targeting WE transports in normal shooting is a different matter and needs no changes IMHO - if the opponent has left the WE transport full of the Imperium's finest, I can imagine the airwaves being jammed with requests / orders to "shoot it NOW".

Personally I think it needs to be made explicit that things inside transports and things outside of range or line of sight are eligible targets, in FAQs both for losing assaults and shooting broken formations. So I guess that is disagreeing with Geep Likewise this is an FAQ so IMO it's OK to refer to specialist abilities where they are directly relevant.

Think the deathstrike thing is a bit of a red herring though, the FAQ for shooting in question is about extra hits on broken formations so not sure how it could be a problem?

So I would do:

1.7.5 Transport Vehicles

Q: What happens to transported units when the unit transporting them is destroyed from an additional hit from a Blast marker on a broken formation?
A: Units inside transports can themselves be allocated such hits immediately after their transport, but any that remain make their normal armour save or a 6+ cover save.

1.12.7 Work Out Result

Q: Are the extra hits the losing formation suffers only applied to units that were directly involved?
A: No, the extra hits represent the disruptive effects on the formation of losing the assault and so are applied to any units in the losing formation, including for example units outside of 15cm and units inside transports. The only units immune to these hits are those with the Fearless specialist ability.

1.13.4 Blast Markers and Broken Formations (new FAQ)

Q: Which units in broken formations are eligible to be allocated the extra hits from blast markers?
A: Hits are allocated front to back against any unit in the formation, including units out of shooting range and units inside transports. The only units immune to these hits are those with the Fearless specialist ability.

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My concern was that an FAQ based on the old thread could end up saying that the hits could be assigned to units in transports due to not needing LoF. That then sets a precedent for weapons that don't need LoF. Call it professional paranoia, as one of my day jobs is assisting with the Infinity FAQ.

Anyway, all three of those look good.

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Agreed that Kyrt's suggestions work for 1.12.7 and 1.13.4, though I am less sure that the proposed FAQ for transports is needed in addition to those that already exist covering these and associated situations:-

Thoughts Dave and Onyx?

That last one is the one I'm suggesting to modify, because it is the only one I found that addresses the issue of whether units in transports can be allocated hits from blast markers during shooting (or near a losing assault etc). However the second one should also be amended in the same fashion if you want to make it so they can themselves be allocated hackdown hits. It currently says that they get to make their saves but to omit that they probably will be allocated a hackdown hit themselves before that happens is an omission IMO.

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Seconded.

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That sounds good.

One other quick detail- I would assume that something in base contact would count as being closer than the transported troops?
For example, if I had two units, in contact with one transport each, and won the combat by two, I would assume that the 2 transports in base contact would be allocated the hits. The transported troops are obviously close, but not quite base-to-base close.