Nice idea, but the guard upgrades are already stupid-cheap. Its that the Cos are already so expensive that you have to go and buy some cheap support formations to get you back in the activation game.

Imho, whats needed is more variation in the large lumpy choices available, rather than just making them larger.

Another option is for guard Cos to be bought as HQ+2 platoon choices from the following : 6 infantry, 3 russ, 3 hellhounds etc...


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In the Batman game they stop the problem of cheap henchmen out activating a small group of expensive superheros by using a pass system. The player with the lower number activations (you get one per model) gets a number of passes to make up the difference, though they can't pass more than twice in a row.

@Mattman

Interesting system - are the passes for each turn or the whole game? what happens when the henchmen get eliminated?



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You determine the number of activations and passes at the beginning of each turn, so as the cheap henchmen get taken out, that player loses those activations. It also means the player with the smaller number of models reduces the number of passes as well as the difference will become less.

In EA as things like the relative competency, logistics, training, etc play such a large part of theme and function for the various armies, I'd say that incorporation of the SR and some type of leadership mechanic would be needed as well. For instance the max could be the difference in SR as Marines vs Eldar wouldn't be as pssing due to the quality of the sides vs marines v guard.

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Sounds interesting. For EA it might work just as well to have activation tokens assigned at the beginning for the whole game to encourage more "small activation" list building.

One key strategy in the game is to eliminate or break activation to gain the upper hand in later turns (for armies with similar activation totals). If you recalculate each turn you would be getting penalised for good strategic play.

Worth trying though.


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I think this is the simpler (and best) idea for trying to solve the problem. One could still have the proper big companies as in the background + use the rarely seen upgrades + keep the point costs slightly down.

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Yep. This looks interesting.
I might have a play with it.

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This has been a real interesting discussion guys.
I know it's the same for our meta here in Australia as well, currently if a list can't keep up with the activation game it's pretty bad news

Very good discussion here.



This is probably the best solution so far as it is the one that would need the least changes. It would still rewards the tactics used till now so so far, its fine. My doubt is which is better, passes decided at the beginning of each turn or the whole game. The first looks that goes more for the xside with more activations strategy wise as it can turn it like it is currently on latter turns, and the second goes more to the side with less activations as it can maintain that rule to counter the more activations advantage all the game but looks unfair, and its easier to keep count and closer to Epic rules.

On the other side, no more than 1BM per turn for coming under fire and swap units are good options too. but would affect a lot armies that depend a lot on activation advantage, and would need a deeper re-balance in many army lists. Swap could work in small quantities with less re-balancing needed, like for example only one swap choice per formation, or keep it for the ones that are the biggest formations by default (400+ points).

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I have a horrible feeling that this is a problem that is more list specific than general, and primarily a problem for the various 'titan' lists. The main reason for this is that the original core lists have upgrades that increase the size of the formation, making it much more resilient. The titan lists do not have the same luxury and consequently seem to struggle between increasing the titan weaponry / power and boosting activation count with weak formations that are easily destroyed.

My suggestion here is to consider a list specific Special Rule that allows titans to pass one activation each provided they have not activated. This could possibly be extended to all lists by allowing all formations that cost more than a particular value (600+ ?), though that obviously includes the core IG formations in a list that works reasonably well without this particular buff.

Either way this needs to be treated with caution as it does change the game significantly, and this set of rules has worked well for almost two decades.

It's fairly rare that you see 600+ point SL formations in lists that "work" so likely not an issue

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It's definitely something that varies from list to list. I've had reasonable success with an eight-activation Death Guard list with a 500pt Retinue and a 675pt Retinue at 3k.

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Likewise I'm a big fan of the guard tank co + hydra. My view with steel legion is that if you want to use a higher activation list you can. If you want to go lower you can. They're not locked into a monobuild.

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Personally, what frustrates me is not that the steel legion list has large formations, nor that there is only one possible build ( there are 2 - with or without leman russ Co :-p) but that the upgrades are never fielded. Id just like to see some more variety in the big formations (or options for more variety in support formations.) Ogyns, hellhounds, gryphons, etc.

Not sure if there are other lists with similar variety issues - titans maybe, but I've put my thoughts forward there already.

There is also internal balance issues too making some formations not worth getting out of your case : Baneblades and Baskalisks particularly.