A standard tactic is to use a formation of scouts to ZoC a Titan. If a second formation ZoCs the same Titan from the opposite side, such that they are not intermingled, the Titan cannot move towards the unit(s) of one formation without exiting the ZoC of the unit(s) of the other formation.

IMO this is why a unit cannot be compelled to move towards 'the unit' in whose ZoC it starts.

Because the rules don't say you have to, they say you can also move away... They don't say you lose that option by choosing an engage action.

You must move away or charge. You must therefore choose an action that allows you to do one of those things. i.e. you cant declare "sustain" and then say "oh well, if I could move away I would but sustain doesn't allow me to move". It is saying that the need to move takes preference over the player's choice of action.

Option 1: charge the unit. Action required: engage
Option 2: move away. Action required: advance, double, engage, march, hold

It's fine to think it should work a certain way, buy in the absence of rules being being explicit then it is open to interpretation, and I think it can go either way. Even when it comes to it, I don't think it's a given that the ZoC rules are there to force you to charge THAT formation, or to CC instead of FF, they are designed to stop you picking and choosing specific units in the formation you have chosen to target. I think it is more odd to compel FF troops to blindly charge into combat just because some scouts are nearby, so if the rules don't say so then I don't think we should.

For me the most contentious point would be: if you engage the same formation, should you be allowed to leave the zoc, and then re-enter the zoc of a different unit from the same formation. This would seem very weird to me.

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I'm with you on this Kyrt. Starting with unit(s) in an enemy ZoC compels the activation choices, which in turn determines whether the formation must leave the enemy ZoC or not.

A similar situation occurs where a fearless unit does not make a Withdrawal move after losing an Assault resolution. The winner is not compelled to consolidate, but if it does, it must exit the enemy ZoC. I believe this is a FAQ (or should be if it is not )

I think entering ZoC is covered at this point, we're talking about starting in enemy ZoC. Where's the disconnect here Onyx? 1.7.3 basically says you can't stay put if you start in ZoC:



An engaging formation still has the choice of moving out of zone on control, that can be done with a charge move. It also has the choice of charging the ZoCing unit. It just does not have the choice of staying put in the ZoC.

The impression I get is that you're reading 1.7.3 as "if a unit charges, it has to charge what's ZoCing it". But it doesn't say that, the "or leave the zone of control" part is still an option even when you're making a charge move.

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Maybe a little weird, but I still think the rules cover it. You choose to leave the first ZoC, once you enter the ZoC of an enemy unit you're compelled to base it if you can.

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Yep fair enough

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I removed that bit from the 1.12.3 FAQ, sorry for the confusion.

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Agreed Dave. The point here is that the wording relates to a unit rather than to a formation, and specifically to entering the ZoC of an enemy unit.

Effectively the wording allows the charging unit to ignore the ZoC of the enemy unit in which it is situated, provided that it is charging the parent formation of that enemy unit. RAW, the unit does not actually have to leave the ZoC it is in before entering the ZoC of another unit.
But if it does leave the existing ZoC, this allows the entire charging formation to be repositioned against the formation which has ZoC'd it.

The question is whether this particular tactic is 'reasonable', and here, I think Onyx may have a point.
The problem is that off the top of my head, I cannot think of a concise way of phrasing this.

Would it be possible to engage and charge 0cm (i.e. stay still and assault) if you start in an enemy ZoC?

What about after you have charged an enemy and placed you units in B2B, and then the enemy has to counter assault. Is the enemy allowed to just choose to leave his units where they are because he has a better FF value? Is he forced to move them into B2B?

It is really early in the morning, I do not have time to attempt to look through all the rules and FAQs as I need to get ready for work soon. The same goes for reading 3 pages worth of posts in this and even other threads on this and other websites.

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An enemy never has to countercharge , they can choose too if they want.

A unit that has been contacted by chargers cannot use its counter-charge to leave B2B contact. However, I think it has also been agreed that a WE can use its counter-charge to barge into other enemy (up to 2x it's DC in total), dragging along those enemy units that are already in contact.

Although it can't countercharge if already in base contact

I think ginger is saying you can. No FAQ for that?

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There's a FAQ for barging on the counter-charge:

http://www.tp.net-armageddon.org/faq/#charge-moves

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