Ok, I will try out the list -with the changes Dave mentioned (but without the Stormeagle -it's not cheap to have a lot of them, even if we're talking about forumware stuff)

-My army will based on Scouts, Land Speeders, and Caestus+Assault tacticals. Some Assaults in Thawks, and veterans everywhere

-How do you plan to use planetfall on Speeders? Do they take up a place in a Strike Cruiser, or they are just above the 20 infantry limit?

-RG are very immobile when they arrive, infantry foot slogging around the battlefield is not much

-The list I mentioned is like a lot of small units, lot of activations, so can spam a lot of Scouts. Did someone tried this before? How it worked? Since there are no real heavies/AT in the list, it can be a hard time against AMTL/Minervan/Deathwing, etc.. Opinions?

Speeders count as AVs in the SC, see the transport rule.

On them being immobile/out-gunned, that's why we test.

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Ok, I see now -20 Speeders in a SC

BTW, it helps a lot to build an army, if the list is available in the Armyforge creator stuff.

Last question for a while -the list is in an Experimental or Developmental state -becuase there will be a tournament in may, and only approved/developmental lists are allowed to participate..

-Typo: The Reaver/Warlords stats are still in the list -while only the Warhound is available!

-thinking all over, I miss the "death from above" special rule a bit -for a planetfalling specialist army, it was a good one..

As for the units proposed above:

I'd recommend the jump pack version, though consider CC3+

Happy with limitation on terminator units.

I don't have the latest 30k list in front of me but I think we've been running the storm eagles as 5+RA and 1DC WE. Whilst the fire raptor is AV.

Both are working ok as flyers.

Chat soon, internet is currently limited at my end.

A 0-1 restriction will solve the issue I was describing with massed terminators in pods blasting, breaking and assaulting. That does require 2 special rules though; a first to remove the restriction that prevents terminators deploying via drop pods, and a second to restrict how many terminators can be taken.

Unless it is important for RG to have limited access to terminators for other reasons, you might simply want to remove the rule that they can deploy via pods to achieve the same balancing effect without any special rules required.

That might also avoid any rules-creep into other lists ("If the raven guard can do it why can't we?")

agreed, correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think there is any current fluff that supports RG terminators deploying via drop pod, rather they teleport in like other chapters. I believe this was something Neil came up with to make them different in the RG list and help grow the "Drop Army" feel of the list.

However if you keep it, I'd support a 0-1 or 0-2 given the limited use of the armour in RG forces - hence why I think RG Vanguard Vets should be the elite forces in this list.

IIRC the only chapter to use pods in preference to teleporting their terminators are the Space Wolves who have a strong distrust of the technology.

have you had any more thought to giving RG infantry some sort of hit and run ability to represent the "strike and fade" tactics?

Two, Iron Hands (due to mixed marine - terminator forces) but point stands Orton. Standardized termies would probably just sort that out nicely without resorting to special rules.

Still like to see Fire/Storm Turkeys come into alignment between 30k and 40k if at all possible. Why the 1DC war engine on the Storm Eagle? That to allow aircraft barging?

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No, still of the opinion that the variant Marine lists don't need special abilities on that level. SM Transport rule variations to fit the fluff is the norm here and I'm looking to stick to it.

So people seem to be in favor of 0-1 for the Terminators and just the regular SM transport rule (so no Drop Pod Terminators)?

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I'm up to testing some of the new sternguard/vanguard ideas -can you confirm them?
Options, points costs, etc They are the ones I'm after

We will see how they work against Land Raider heavy codex marines, or AMTL -my friend has 2 armies ready to test them. I'm sure the RG wont stand a chance against titans, with only infantry/LV.. but worth a try!

That's hard to say; if you mean the new AMTL plasma destructor type of titans, then they are so viciously good at killing things with 75cm macro weapons (eg 7 landraiders or 14 predators each) that you're almost better off having nothing of value in your army.
Just assume they have a 'If a unit is in LOS within 75cm, remove it from play' rule, and spam cheap inf/LV activations

Good luck

Yes, RG vs Titans doesn't work too well in engagements....but if you are able to get units with MW into positions where they can crossfire Titans....that's works ok.

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The problem starts above/with Reaver size (so battle titans)- 1 shot/1 infantry/light formation dies. so it's possible that in the 3-4th turn the activation number is equal.. Usally it's hard to get a BTS from the titns, but they get your BTS -and in an infantry heavy force it's not a hard goal to achive.

So you start your battle in -1VP. Since RG does not have much ranged fire, they need to get in FF/CC. FF is against titan void shields, since RG does not have much ranged fire to negate the shields

CC against battle titans is the termies jib -but they are limited (as they should be) so, CC should be avoided.

I plan a force witha LOT of scouts (good AP), Speeders (5+ MW is not a big deal agains an intact void shiled..) and sternguard veterans +tacticals (since RG doesn't have Devastators, to go against the shields). A spacecraft with dropping Termies+Dreadnougths (BTS). Not sue about the assaults/Vanguard assaults (popcorn units, but I choose scouts instead). My experience with AMTL is like a few killable warhounds+sentinels, and slow battle titans, to kill formations, not for taking objectives.

A game like this (with an army mentioned above) is played against time- If I can finish it at turn 3, I might be the winner, if not, I will be obliterated, by the far superior firepower. It's hard to control any objectives (no BTS, as I mentioned above -usually the BTS guarding the Blitz, so no Blitz. maybe a T&H, or the TSNP, but for sure, the DtF will be mine). So 12-14 activation with a SM army is always funny, but at the end it will be 4-5, the same for the titans

I really want to try out Sternguard/Vanguard guys, I like their fluff -and I have miniatures for them

Bah.. how could I forget Iron Hands !

Storm Eagles as 1 DC WE flyers was to allow transport of a separate formation under the WE transport rules IIRC. Basically then functions similarly to the Thunderhawk Transporter. As the Fire Raptors don't need to land on the deck or transport troops they remained as a AV but could just as easily be a 1 DC WE.



Me too!

If I may, I'd recommend Vanguard as:

30cm INF, A:4+, CC:3+, FF:5+
Power weapons (Close Combat) +1 EA MW
Bolt Pistols (Small Arms)
Notes: Jump Pack
Cost: 250? for 4

Why:
In 40k terms their attacks/potential in HtH is equal or better to standard terminators, generating more attacks of potentially equal Strength and AP when tricked out.
Armour same as standard marine. Firepower is likely to be limited, plasma pistols etc may be taken but unlikely to be in sufficient number to affect FF stat at epic scale.
Move as per standard assault marines.
If you took away the MW CC, then consider giving them +1 EA and sniper to represent their supposed ability to arrive where needed and cut out the heart/leadership of an enemy.

and Sternguard as:

15cm INF, A:4+, CC:3+, FF: 3+
Combi Weapons: 15cm 2x AP5/AT5
Cost: 250? for 4 incl transports.

Why:
Move and save as per standard tacticals. (and transport options)
CC ability in 40k is equal to standard assault marines even though they carry bolters etc.
Heavy weapon options exist but best employed using lots of combi-weapons and specialist ammo, through which they have the ability to destroy all target types, hence AP5/AT5 but only at close range. At epic scale I'd ignore any stupid one shot limitations of combi-weapons in 40k.
FF ability is better than standard tacticals but not better than devastators or terminators. Another options would be to give 4 or 5+ FF and have the combi weapons grant an extra FF attack to make them distinctly aimed at the FF role.
Could give them scout to make them able to operate as small independent teams but that's not really supported by any recent GW fluff - rather these guys are more likely leading the assault or acting as a counter attack force.

I am ABSOLUTELY CONVINCED I am playing this rule correctly, even though it means I think I am taking advantage of the way the rule is written:

The rule on snipers (2.1.14) states the sniper unit rolls to hit seperately from other units and if it hits, the attacker may choose which enemy unit is hit.

So I purchase sniper ability for a whole unit of scouts, meaning either 4 or 6 shots. I shoot at an enemy unit that has a character in it, and it it AFTER I determine hot many hits I scored, that I decide how many of those shots go against the character base (possibly much more than 1)

Thoughts?

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