Cybershadow did intend as I recall to add a "beginner's section" to the forum, to include a diagram I knocked up illustrating the versions of Epic. There's a thread around somewhere about it, but I don't think he ever did add the section.

I would like to add a "history of epic" to the NetEA website to explain objectively about the different versions of the rules but it's not really my call. Even to know that different communities of EA players all use the same rules (even if the army lists are different) is useful, for example.

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Kyrt's Battle Result Tracker (forum post is here)
Kyrt's trade list

Hi!

Well for those us whom play and maintain net epic, keeping it alive has been our ongoing task for over 17 years.

Net epic people keep pretty much to themselves, but the interest is there. Our yahoo mailing list has been basically dead for a decade (we do our revisions here now) and people are STILL joining it. Most are just not interested in "community" or even participating in revisions. Much less being on these forums.

It is a curious mindset, but I have learned the majority of people whom favor net epic share it. Overall there is little desire for some kind of "ruleset unification" much less a worry over whether it is "supported" or not. In a nutshell that segment considers what we put out support enough and at least from the e-mails I get over the years they take it upon themselves to form their own little niche groups to play it with little or no consideration beyond there own group.

Epic is now a "Hobbyist's" Hobby. What I mean is that it is each individual group or persons is now responsible for their own enjoyment of the "epic hobby". Unless another company takes up epic as a supported line, those days are gone.

Unity, uniformity or getting new blood in epic is just not a big priority for some (myself included). I am content with my solo games or to play a game through video and internet with a fellow enthusiast (I haven't forgotten Bissler!), look at pictures on the forums and generally talk about epic stuff.

For me personally, I rather like things now that GW has "officially" left the epic stage. The recent advances in technology that permit fans to produce "usable for epic" stuff (thank you Chapterhouse verdict!) has made my interest in epic peak to a level never seen before. For me at least its like a second golden age. Where anything goes and is achievable if people put their minds to it.

Primarch

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Primarch


The Primarchload
Magnetized Titans Tutorial
Net Epic Gold
Heresy Rules

Aside from the aforementioned difficulty over the multiple sets of rules, which has been raised before, the main problem is defining and measuring success and being alive.

For my part, I don't view army list approval rates, new army lists, or any sort of rules development as indicators of success. We are not developing a new game or computer software. We are playing a game. The rules could stay the same, and it wouldn't matter in terms of attracting new people, because, being new, they wouldn't be familiar with the rules, so they would be new to them regardless.

What matters is how many people are playing and enjoying the game. That's how I evaluate success and the state of the game. Considering the amount of competition from blogs, Facebook, and Twitter, I think that the Epic community here is doing pretty well in terms of activity and attracting some new players and members.

Providing the word keeps being spread, others will join. I think that there is an increasing tendency for players to drift away from 40K, for example, as time goes by, and that's the opportunity to get them interested in games like Epic. That's where I think rules stability helps rather than hinders, so my advice is to focus on recruitment and retention, not list development.

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This is my thoughts too.

It's very different world from the one in which Epic first appeared. Rules that are free and playtested by a community thousands of times over are much better than whatever vaguely balanced ideas a single company can come up with. And 6mm sci-fi ranges are rapidly filling in all the gaps for Epic armies, and much more besides.
6mm sci fi that includes 40K type ranges will continue, whatever label this goes under.

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http://hordesofthings.blogspot.co.nz/

Thanks for the responses, everyone, and I'm glad this sparked some discussion.

While I do appreciate debate on whether or not Epic truly is dying and what that means to you personally, my point was more to find people who want to promote and proselytize and also brainstorm ideas on how to do that.

For example, right now I'm seeing if I can put some contacts to work to maybe post an Epic article on Bell of Lost Souls. I don't know if it will work or not, but it's just one thing I'm trying. I really liked the idea of an eZine. It sounds like a tremendous amount of work, and I'm not sure I've got the time to shoulder such responsibility, but, it could probably be done as a sort of collaborative effort if others were interested.

I think the beginner's section is a great idea. Also, somehow publicizing this site a little bit more couldn't hurt. I just read a comment on Dakka in a thread I posted where a guy said that he only found Tac Com by happenstance months after he started playing Epic. My experience finding the site was similar. This is a dark corner of the internet that isn't so easy to find.

Any other ideas?

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Former Blood Angels Army Champion
Epic Gamers Los Angeles Chapter
Armies Played:
Blood Angels
Black Legion
Codex Marines
Imperial Fists

Hi!

We used to run an e-zine in the early net epic days called Incoming!

You may want to pick Netepic's brain (Tom from Exodus Wars) since he used to run it.

It IS a LOT of work though. But I think people would contribute ideas and articles is someone decides to make one.

Primarch

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Primarch


The Primarchload
Magnetized Titans Tutorial
Net Epic Gold
Heresy Rules

Yeah good point. In terms of my own efforts, I post pictures of Epic games and painted armies to my blog, which also has links to the rules and Tac-com. I then post news of the these blog updates to my local wargaming forum, and also TMP (big international site) and here. In addition my blog is linked to other blogs who share it around further.

I guess I could post to other forums also... but what would be some good ones to target if I was going to do so?

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http://hordesofthings.blogspot.co.nz/

I don’t think that Epic is dying out as such. There is proof that it is alive and kicking

- This and other sites
- Brisk Ebay trade
- New crowd funded models
- Shapeways items defo aimed at Epic
- New games supporting Epic (AB to name one)

I do think there is a reduction in the number of war gamers on a whole. This is due to lower levels of new players picking it up. Lets be honest, most young teens now don’t like to stray from the herd and war gaming is not seen as cool unless it’s of the Call Of Duty type. And with consoles becoming more prevalent people are not willing to put their effort into something as time consuming as Epic can be. I don’t just mean playing I mean learning, getting the models, painting etc.

There IS an increase in older players returning/taking up Epic. In my case I am returning but in the case of the few guys I play regularly its that they did play 40K and Necro when younger but now I have gotten them into Epic

The change to older players is a double edged sword. Yes they in theory have more income and potentially more ability to spend on the hobby. They also have the mind set to try out lists, create new ones and support a community like this. BUT they do not have the time to invest as much as they might like.

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Walk softly. And carry a big gun.

Hate to double post but forgot to mention - there is also market dilution with the number of new games/rule sets coming out for 6mm. This has increase in the last few years. Maybe part of the key to increasing Epic's uptake is to concentrate on players that already play a 6mm game of some type. Easier to convert them as they already have the models and the mindset to play

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Walk softly. And carry a big gun.

I suppose if epic is to be kept alive, firstly it needs to be advertised:-

There are loads of potential "targets"

The miniatures Page.
Lead adventure Forum
WWPD
Dakka Dakka
BolS

...To name but a few.

L4 is always on TMP fighting taccoms corner, as am I when I have something useful to add (unless L4 beats me to it). Blogs are another way of promoting the epic scene, and one I use alot.

The next bit might be controversial.

I believe we need to support the new 6mm companies, by that I mean make lists etc for their figures, not as proxies but as armies in their own right. Instead of another SM list or another Eldar variant, how about a list for the OTC, the Guild, the Pax arcadians?

As for the fragmented nature of the whole epic community...? well, it is what it is. People like different stuff

Steve

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Little legions, my blog http://stevenkelly1.blogspot.com/

That too, though takes someone to do it, and some of them (Guild and Arcadians) are so close to guard that wouldn't bother, or just base a new list heavily off the guard lists. Kraytonian and Andrayada could do with their own lists though.

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http://hordesofthings.blogspot.co.nz/

I think the OTC might end up being quite a bit similar to the Tau somehow.....

I see what you're saying and I think the crux of it is are we keeping the epic game system alive, or are we keeping the epic 40k game alive?

personally I have no real interest in using non-GW universe races in my games, I like the 40k universe, full of its canon conflicts, retconned stuff and contradictions, not to mention genetically enhanced super soldiers punching tanks with electric boxing gloves

If my interest was simply '6mm gaming' then I'd be playing Seeds of War, command horizon, FWC, Strike Legion or any of the other great 6mm scale rulesets out there

I appreciate I may be in the minority here

back on the original topic, I've run a couple of demo games for people lately who are keen to play again, and I'm just organising an intro event at one of the local clubs for half a dozen people who are really keen on getting into/back into epic again, so the people are there, and with companies producing really rather excellent miniatures which coincidentally proxy well for quite a lot of the existing GW armies, as long as we keep pushing, we'll keep getting new blood.... sure some people won't start unless they can have exact GW replicas, but those kinds of people are probably not the sort we want joining in anyway

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Just some guy

My hobby/painting threads

Army Forge List Co-ordinator

Why don't we put on games at UK wargames shows?

I think a large impressive game of Epic, using only proxies (I think using proxies would be best as it shows these miniature's are still available and being made, and you don't need to spend massive amounts of money on eBay or know the right people to play the game).

Beautiful terrain and miniatures at a big show like Salute, with the miniatures being used actually on sale at the show could give the game a massive shot in the arm. Impressive games at these shows tend to get posted on multiple blogs and forums.

It would be cool if we could get some info sheets printed (nothing flash just photocopied A4 of relevant links) to hand out to the interested punters.

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http://robsepicblog.blogspot.co.uk

I have to agree with some of the sentiment above : epic seems to be more alive than it's been for years ! No time for complacency though - keep doing what we're doing : entice new players. Shouldn't be too hard with gw seemingly intent to destroy everything good about the main 40k game by introducing Santa-sleds and the ilk ! :-)