To me, these two posts sum up the issue, and IMHO why GW will not be doing anything about this, despite the most fervent wishes of the ever dwindling community:-

1. 6mm is already attracting many small manufacturers, which will seriously impede (if not prohibit) cost-sensitive GW from releasing a new game in that scale.
2. A boxed game is likely to provide the quickest return - a 'fire-&-forget' style product that was the speciality of SG. But GW have dismantled SG, signalling that they are not interested in that style of product, even as a leader into a new product line.
3. The associated effort in producing the new stuff will dilute their efforts in supporting their "core" games which are central to their finances. I would dare to suggest that such dilution would hasten the demise of GW, not save it, due to the further dip in profits that this would entail.
4. 10mm requires a lot of investment to start into a 'new' scale, which others are now starting to inhabit (DZ among others). GW are not in a position to make this scale of investment.
5. Many (like Wg I) want upscaled versions of known 6mm W40K designs, while others do not. This dilemma impacts the GW strategy, and reduces any profits that might accrue from the 'new game' or scale.
6. Finally, the introduction of 3D printing, especially from the likes of Shapeways, is becoming a significant force in miniatures market. As this gathers momentum, it enables more individuals to present alternative figures, which in turn must have some effect on the intended market. GW are fighting to retain control of their 40K universe, especially the figures and names. As such, they do not seem prepared to allow others to help expand things to the mutual benefit of all.

In short guys, don't hold your breath waiting for something to happen. Play Epic, W40K or whatever takes your fancy, and make use of existing resources from the existing manufacturers - or any of the various auction sites - and to quote L4, DWWFY.

I'm not entirely sure your conclusion follows from your premise, Ginger; though your point – make the most of what we've got – is certainly a valid one.

To clarify my position; I don't have any burning desire to see GW release a new Epic game (of any sort), not do I think it's likely. That said, GW have demonstrated – through Space Hulk (3rd ed.) and Dreadfleet – that they're quite happy to release 'fire-and-forget' games. Both of those were released in the recent past; after the dissolution of Specialist Games.

To address your points individually:
1 – Releasing a potential game in 10mm (rather than 6mm) is therefore to GW's benefit; reducing cannibalisation or expansion by third party 6mm manufacturers and forcing people with 6mm scale forces to buy new.
2 – Addressed above.
3 – Partially addressed above; and it's also worth bearing in mind that GW have adopted a smaller, quicker, release schedule. Their manufacturing capabilities are such that they can produce short-run plastics (look at their mail order exclusives, the clam shell blisters, or the aforementioned Space Hulk and Dreadfleet for examples); so a launch that includes two or three sprues – like Epic: 40,000 – makes more financial sense for them now than back when E:40k was released.
4 – Broadly agreed; but GW lives on novelty – the rapid-fire launch of 40k expansions and 'surprise' kits like the Knight are proof of that. If, as the common wisdom goes, their core market is mostly impressionable teens, then flashy difference is probably what they're after.
5 – Not sure that this point makes much sense from GW's side (and I think the point wargames_insomniac is making is that he wants 28mm models downscaled; not the Epic versions upscaled). Releasing Space Marines and Orks in a one-off set opens up the market to 40k players with a completed 28mm scale army – it's a captive market.
6 – While true, I don't think the world of 3D printing is going to have a noticeable effect for a relatively long time; and from GW's point of view, if they can flood the field with the 'genuine option' affordably, that reduces the ability of third party manufacturers to keep up/compete.

I agree with your overall point that a small scale (non-28mm) game is vanishingly unlikely to appear; but – assuming a new version did appear, it's far from a bad move on GW's part.

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Always glad to help a bro out and further the spread of 6mm Sci-fi !

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While Space Hulk 3rd (2009) and and Dreadfleet (2011) are the only recent 'non-core' games released by SG, Talisman (2007) and Horus Heresy (2010) were franchised to Fantasy Flight games (were there any others?). And GW have not released anything since. To me this suggests a reluctance to go down the 'boxed game' avenue, certainly in recent years where their finances have been "troubled". . . .

So I stand by the view that GW are not in a position to embark on another boxed game - at least for the moment . . . . but YVMV

(and for Kyuss' sake, you really need to contribute the opposite view - go on, you know you want to
- yes *you*)

Don't try and drag me into this endless cycle Ginger

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My biggest gripe with the possible move to 10mm scale is that the vehicles end up getting too big.

I've always felt that the main strength of 6mm epic with respect to playability is the fact that 6mm vehicles are roughly the same size as a 28mm infantry figure. That means they are easier to paint, easier to fit on a table top battle field, and easier on the wallet.

10mm infantry certainly looks better, but infantry aren't the main focus of the game - the main focus is the big stuff. By making the big stuff even bigger, you make it harder to create battles 'on an epic scale'.

Heck, I'd prefer a shift in scale to 2mm. Put the vehicles on strip bases and give us reasonably sized titans and buildings.

Can you explain what you mean here? I understand someone just preferring 10mm, but how do you see additional 6mm sculpts diluting the player base?

Just curious.

Allen McCarley

Certainly - I mean that a 10mm game, by virtue of being a complete clean break, would not cannibalise players from the various existing Epic systems (Space Marine; Epic 40,000; Epic: Armageddon etc.)

Having a new 'official' 6mm system would add yet another version. GW would add to the playerbase with either scale, but from our point of view (players who like 6mm Epic), a 10mm version adds no threat to the 6mm version (in fact, I would imagine third party manufacturers would take it as a sign that GW have drawn a final line under 6mm support), and instead offers a new separate opportunity - more comparable to the relationship between 28mm 40k and Epic: Armageddon in the 90s, than between Epic: 40,000 and Epic: Armageddon now (i.e. complementary rather than a replacement).

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To some extent I agree Semaj and apol. You can easily imagine 10-12mm figures and 1/144 scale kits of vehicles, Titans etc all of which the avid collector could not resist . . . . BUT . . . . (and it is a big *BUT*) this would mean a lot of modelling, etc. While GW certainly have the capability, this would represent a really significant investment (read gamble), and at this point the $64K question is what the ROI would be, and especially the time-line.

Sure, they can re-use the moulds over time to produce variants etc (providing someone doesn't lose them ), but the initial investment hurdle is likely to be significant - the question is whether GW consider this the best use for their funds or not.

Seriousky, this is still talked about? Give it a rest!

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Hi!

Excellent summary. I concur.

Primarch

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Primarch


The Primarchload
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Hi!

I agree with this, one of the may reason IF they ever did a reboot, they'd do it in another scale.

Primarch

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Primarch


The Primarchload
Magnetized Titans Tutorial
Net Epic Gold
Heresy Rules

Not on my gaming table ... Infantry rules !!!!!!!!!!!!

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Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."

I was waiting for that!

Next he's going to be telling us some cod-shit about titans being mobile gun platforms not assault units and complaining about kids on the lawn!

[ducks]

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