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Time to make an effort on playtesting the lists!!

 Post subject: Re: Time to make an effort on playtesting the lists!!
PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 2:56 pm 
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Matt-Shadowlord wrote:
kyussinchains wrote:
it's a nice idea in theory and I wholeheartedly support it, however from my PoV, I only have one game per week, and normally only around 2 hours to play it in


You get a game per week!!??? I am suddenly envious :D

I have another suggestion though - I propose a Battle Report Exchange. A Battle Report Exchange would basically be a place to post that a player has a list that needs testing in another geographic playgroup area, and in return they will do X playtests and battreps of another player's lists.


I approve, but since I'm only getting ~1 game a month (if I'm lucky) I've got very limited currency to spend. My focus at the moment is getting another 5 or so Skittari list games played (since the ERC request 6 games in 3 groups) and then I'd love to get the Chaos Titan list rolling.

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 Post subject: Re: Time to make an effort on playtesting the lists!!
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 11:25 am 
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Just wanted to chime in to give a thumbs up to Moredoten's lead-by-example approach :)

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 Post subject: Re: Time to make an effort on playtesting the lists!!
PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2013 8:37 am 
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So, last week i managed to do 2 reports. Both with the AM Skitari list. Before January is over i will have played 4 more, thats the goal i've set.
After that I'll do AMTL the same way.

If you really like a list (like me and all the mechanicum lists) then make sure to 1. play thrm 2 make a battle report when you do and 3. post them on this forum.

Thats all it is to it. Now lets approve some lists!

Merry X-mas.

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 Post subject: Re: Time to make an effort on playtesting the lists!!
PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2013 2:01 pm 
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Despite my best intentions I didn't really get round to playtesting much this year ( I get side tracked quite a lot). Still, I have some games coming up this week, so I'll see what I can do.

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 Post subject: Re: Time to make an effort on playtesting the lists!!
PostPosted: Sat Dec 28, 2013 11:12 am 
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I really like Matts suggestion on how to do a battlereport but would it be "legit"?
Matt-Shadowlord wrote:
I have another suggestion, which is that we actually formalise this process. Irisado mentions playing lots of games and having reports on them to back up changes and suggestions, but if you view the majority of battreps they are simply a record of what happened and who won (90% by the victor, since there seems less incentive to write reports of losses :D).

What might make this even more useful would be if we had a simple, set questionnaire for the players to fill in after the game. I'll write a few questions of the top of my head to give an idea what I mean:

[] Did any of the test-list's units appear overpowered?
[] Did any of the test-list's units appear under powered?
[] Would you change the costs of any units?
[] Did this list appear substantially better than the primary army of its 40K race, or simply a different spin on the army?
[] Was it clear that the test list had weaknesses to offset strengths, and vice versa?
[] Did this list play like a one-trick-pony (all air assault, all amour, all CC etc)
[] If yes, was that thematically accurate to the army's background?
[] On a scale of 1 to 10, how happy would you be to see this become and official army list?

Those are just the first questions that occured to me, but something like that could be a lot more useful than 'New Nids played Eldar. We ate them all, 3-0'. :D


Somewhere someone told me you have to do a action by action summary but if you read the NetEA Charter it just have to be documented...
Another big issue for our playgroup is that the opponent need to be playing an approved list, is that still necessary?
Quote:
NetEA Army List Approval Process
An army list can be submitted to the NetERC for approval by its Army Champion when at least three independent gaming groups have playtested a minimum of six games each with the same version of the army list (for a total of 18 games). These games must be completed using the Epic Tournament Game Rules (EA 6.1) and be against opponents using NetEA Approved army lists in order to be considered. The games should be documented and submitted to the NetERC along with the list for approval.

If we could do a battlereport in the style suggested by Matt and allowed playing against other development list my group could submit a lot more reports. (Right now we need to take notes to track the activations and it kind of takes away some of the fun from the game...)


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 Post subject: Re: Time to make an effort on playtesting the lists!!
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 2:57 pm 
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Now things are happening! Alot of reports have started to come in!

I myself will be concentrating all efforts to do my part on getting the AMTL list approved again! That should go pretty fast unless weird ideas get put into the list and it gets bumpwd back to experimental states!
I've done 3 battlereports for the AM Skitari list but got told by the AM AC that they won't count towards the 6 needed for approved status from i playgroup... Got bummed out by that?

Whate other lists has gotten more reports in? Any list closer to being approved since i did the first post in this topic?

Lets keep the momentum up guys and make sure that more lists gets approved in 2014 than ever vefore! :-)

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 Post subject: Re: Time to make an effort on playtesting the lists!!
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 6:06 pm 
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mordoten wrote:
I've done 3 battlereports for the AM Skitari list but got told by the AM AC that they won't count towards the 6 needed for approved status from i playgroup... Got bummed out by that?


Can I understand why they were not acceptable (or point me to the thread that explains). I don't want to submit crap so would love to be edified as to what is no no

edit: added quote for clarification related to Dave's question

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Last edited by jimmyzimms on Tue Jan 07, 2014 6:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Time to make an effort on playtesting the lists!!
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 6:12 pm 
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uvenlord wrote:
playing against other development list my group could submit a lot more reports


Trying to balance a list against a list that might not be balanced itself isn't a good way to go about things though, that's why we need them against approved lists.

Jimmy, I'm not following you. What's not acceptable/who said that?

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 Post subject: Re: Time to make an effort on playtesting the lists!!
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 6:45 pm 
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Quote:
Can I understand why they were not acceptable (or point me to the thread that explains). I don't want to submit crap so would love to be edified as to what is no no


Sorry. I don't think there is a thread, but the short explanation is that the Skitarii list is still in development and it's not ready to be considered for Approved status yet. There could still be some major changes to it though it's unlikely. For instance, Mordoten has been using the Avenger fighters in his Skitarii games. These are still just part of the playtest changes. It's 99.9% likely they will be part of the list, but they aren't currently. Once we finished the primary testing (all units and formations are used in at least two games, then we can consider if the list is ready to go for approved and start tracking battle reports for it.)

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 Post subject: Re: Time to make an effort on playtesting the lists!!
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 6:46 pm 
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To make sure that the newer lists (and reports) work, I thought the opposing army ought to be taken from the core lists originally presented (SM, Orks, IG and possibly Eldar), rather than from the later but possibly approved lists eg. Chaos lists like Black Legion, or variants of the core lists like Dark Eldar.


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 Post subject: Re: Time to make an effort on playtesting the lists!!
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 6:49 pm 
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Vaaish wrote:
Quote:
Can I understand why they were not acceptable (or point me to the thread that explains). I don't want to submit crap so would love to be edified as to what is no no


Sorry. I don't think there is a thread, but the short explanation is that the Skitarii list is still in development and it's not ready to be considered for Approved status yet. There could still be some major changes to it though it's unlikely. For instance, Mordoten has been using the Avenger fighters in his Skitarii games. These are still just part of the playtest changes. It's 99.9% likely they will be part of the list, but they aren't currently. Once we finished the primary testing (all units and formations are used in at least two games, then we can consider if the list is ready to go for approved and start tracking battle reports for it.)


Ahhh ok. Thanks. I just wanted to make sure I don't waste everyone's time.

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 Post subject: Re: Time to make an effort on playtesting the lists!!
PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 8:12 pm 
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Dave wrote:
uvenlord wrote:
playing against other development list my group could submit a lot more reports


Trying to balance a list against a list that might not be balanced itself isn't a good way to go about things though, that's why we need them against approved lists.
I get that but there is someone(AC?) somewhere that looks at the lists and considers if the report is good or not, right? Vaish is a good example of that (regardless of what I think of not using reports because they use a formation that is only 99.9% certain to appear ;) )
A report by me playing against IG with only infantry companies might not be worth as much as if I played against a "standard" Iyanden list if you want to see if the list is balanced or not...
Also the quite large points drop for the spacemarines on almost half of its formations compared to the rulebook might suggest that some of the approved lists is not that balanced after all...

Just a curious question, anyone who knows how many lists that have been approved with the current "18 battlereports" rules the last couple of years?
Also where can I find what version of the list that appears in the Tournament pack? (Some of us use the pack and some use the compendium...)


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 Post subject: Re: Time to make an effort on playtesting the lists!!
PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 8:33 pm 
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uvenlord wrote:
Just a curious question, anyone who knows how many lists that have been approved with the current "18 battlereports" rules the last couple of years?


None.

Quote:
Also where can I find what version of the list that appears in the Tournament pack? (Some of us use the pack and some use the compendium...)


The TP is the latest and greatest at that time, the compendium is slightly behind. New revisions of each should be out this month.

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 Post subject: Re: Time to make an effort on playtesting the lists!!
PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 9:18 pm 
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Dave wrote:
uvenlord wrote:
Just a curious question, anyone who knows how many lists that have been approved with the current "18 battlereports" rules the last couple of years?


None.


Well.... That is very, very sad. You guys happy with this?

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 Post subject: Re: Time to make an effort on playtesting the lists!!
PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 9:28 pm 
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Not really, but the #s were put in place to ensure things were actually getting some testing.

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