Hey everyone,
Just a brief recap of 2013 before I get started. We had three major goals for the year: Gain approved status for AMTL, test the Skitarii list, and create the Cataphractii list. While I can't say we accomplished the first, we have made progress. As far as Skitarii goes, I think we are on track with this. We just need to buckle down and try out a few of the lesser used unit combinations before we can push this toward Approved. Cataphractii I believe has a solid start so lets build on that.

Goals for 2014:

AMTL Approved status. Update AMTL list with errata and weapons changes. Prepare remaining battle reports and submit for approval. I believe we need two more groups to run through tests before we can submit.

AMTL Alternate development. Based on the Thoughts on the future of AMTL, I'd like to build a titan list more focused on outright firepower and movement with the eventual goal of replacing the current AMTL list at some point. This list would follow the same structure as the current AMTL list but adjust weapons and a few options to focus titans on killing and clearing rather than sitting and holding.

Skitarii Final testing. I'd like to see some tests of the lesser used options in the list as well as some extensive tests of the Minorus. Basically this means three things:

1. Test the sagitarii and demi-century with chimedons.
2. Test the minorus weapons options, both single and company, and tweak weapons cost as needed.
3. Test the Majoris.

Cataphractii testing. Now that we've hammered out the list itself, we need to actually work at playing it and seeing what needs to change. Some stuff we can be reasonably sure about since armor units aren't exactly a concept new to AdMech, but we still need to see about playing it and getting a few reports back.

Let me know if you all have any other thoughts and ideas!

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-Vaaish

Is this statistically backed or merely anecdotal? In my experience (and based on the logged playtests), the AMTL tends to win on goals, and when the game is drawn on goals, it is just as likely the AMTL that loses.

At one time it was statistically backed. I haven't done a full review recently though. More often than not the AMTL player attempts to deploy objectives close enough to allow one unit to claim both. Opponents try to remove smaller formations and ignore the larger titans. End result is AMTL being unable to hold objectives while opponents can't get enough to win on t3 since they bigger titans are hard to kill but easy to contest the objective they are on. (blitz guard titan that doubles as BTS, one titan over the center line contesting both objectives and denying They Shall Not Pass and DTF) game goes on to t4 where little changes and AMTL either draws or wins on points.

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-Vaaish

I think we should aim for getting it approved. And then start looking at a alternative list. Thats my vote.

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"You have a right to be offended" - Steve Hughes
"Your feelings are hurting my thoughts" - Aron Flam

That's a fairly natural consequence of having few, but resilient formations; Since the resilient Titans are also slow (especially if they want to get value for money from their very expensive guns), it means that any experienced enemy commander knows exactly what the AMTL strategy is, before deploying the first formation. That's a huge advantage that adequately offsets the AMTL resiliency advantages.



The devil is as usual in the details. It is possible to keep a battle titan from passing the center line, unless the AMTL dedicates support to the push. This usually means that the battle is fought on a narrow front, with perhaps a few diversionary moves (AMTL Warhounds trying to circle the battle, or opponent formations attempting to take far-off T&H objectives unopposed).

If the AMTL is stopped (typically, by a detonated or broken maneuver Battle Titan), the opponent wins on DTF and TSNP, sometime BTS (if the maneuver TItan was the expensive one) and T&H (if the AMTL under-commits to those).

If the AMTL is not stopped, the opponent line typically collapses entirely, and the AMTL can win on BTS, T&H and sometimes Blitz as well.

The standoff scenario, where AMTL wins on points, is a very narrow middle ground. And yes, it is wider than for many other armies, but it is not, in my opinion, a problem that needs addressing. There's plenty of challenge in executing the AMTL advance as described, and the challenge of trying to stop it is definitely not insurmountable. I don't find the AMTL in its current form boring to play with, or against.

At this point vaaish I think we should push to approved. Starting again will alienate a lot of people, while finishing here and trying a new list would be far less painful. Get the list out there and see if it sinks or swims.

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My shifting projects

Push to approved. Circle back on Stygies (or other FW of choice) variant list.

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Very well, we'll push to approved. I would still like to see some of the weapon changes to CLP, apocalypse launcher, and GB. I'll also get the errata in and we will go from there.

Updated first post.

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-Vaaish

Yes, the push to approved would be cool. And then reworking the list with your proposed changes and see how it does.

Beside this: What's up with House Hyperion Knight list? Would also be cool to see this approved.

Good question, unfortunately the Knight SubAC position seems cursed. Carlos has been AWOL lately so not development has happened there. With everything else going on I don't have time (or the models) to test the Knight list too so I don't see it progressing much right now unless Carlos comes back or we find we need a new SubAC.

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-Vaaish

I might be interested. But only after we get 2 out of 3 AM lists approved!

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"You have a right to be offended" - Steve Hughes
"Your feelings are hurting my thoughts" - Aron Flam

Ok, back to approval for AMTL:

I've gotten about 5 reports that I think are workable from SpeakerToMachines' group. If we can get one more using the new 3.21 list I think we'll be set there.

I still need two additional groups to post 6 full battle reports using the list. (I think that Mordoten is planning some so I need one additional group)

We should be able to use reports back from 3.18 to now. There have been very slight changes from then. Including 3.21, CLP limited to 1 BP weapon, Disrupt to Apoc, GB upped to 6 shots and God Machines expanded to include scout titans. I don't think any of those changes would have had significant effect on the battle reports.

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-Vaaish

i call shenanigans on that.

If you don't think that the CLP change will have a significant effect, then there's no need to do it.
Obviously you do think it will have a significant impact, and that impact is rubbish.

It will, for instance, completely invalidate every battle report currently filed with a titan that uses a CLP (a state which you seem to think is rampant, and somehow a problem, despite public outcry to the contrary and as best as i can tell, no real call to support the position that such a thing needs to be changed)

You claim that most every titan list uses a arty titan, complain that such a beast represents 1/3rd of a list, and then suggest that making a change that invalidates that build (and in doing so, renders 1/3rd of each battle report invalid with it) and claim that you don't think this will have any effect?

I submitted a battle report for 3.20 and was willing to provide more if the opportunity arose. If nothing else, for me the CLP change will have the significant effect on battle reports in that I will no longer provide them.

I was happy to support moving the previous version to approved status. the CLP change means that is no longer the case.

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~Every Tool Is A Weapon, If You Hold It Right~

Yes, i agree with JTG. Do you want to do this together with the AMTL-playong community or do you want to do this as a one man show?

3 of us (all AMTL players, JTG, Me and StM) have all objected to the CLP change. If this is going to be a democratic, collaborative effort you should probably take that into account!

Maybe do a poll an see if the AMTL-players support your suggestions for change?

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"You have a right to be offended" - Steve Hughes
"Your feelings are hurting my thoughts" - Aron Flam

And i will gladly submit 6 reports before the end of February. But only if we do this together and our opinions are taken seriously!

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https://epic40ksweden.wordpress.com/

"You have a right to be offended" - Steve Hughes
"Your feelings are hurting my thoughts" - Aron Flam