Because Rhinos are armored vehicles withOUT the walker ability. Only infantry, LVs, and AVs with walker can use the pit head.

_________________
author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

Thoughts from the game yesterday:

Thudds: 2 garrisoned formations took out 5 raptors in turn 1, breaking 1 formation, crippling the other. Solid artillery, should've taken one more formation.

Big warrior hosts: My second game with beefed up stunties. Popped one in the pithead, the other in rhinos. These are real road blocks, big solid and packs enough firepower to pose a threat for most enemy formations, but expensive. Considering to take at least one each game plus 1-2 smaller hosts. Rhinos gives them great mobility, but the pithead really put emphasis on their road block ability.

Gyrocopters: This time they sat back poppin' shots and showed real potential when my opponent dropped 3 CSM formations behind my lines. One formation gyros routed a retinue in one 45cm volley, definitely had the Leman Russ feel.

Overlords: Took 2 in a formation, they're beasts, 12 shots at 75, 20 at 45, plus the higher break point when combined. Great formation at 475 pts.

Guildmaster: I compared the bikers formation to the CSM bikes, and the squats are left wanting I'm afraid. Granted, 225 pts vs 300 pts is cheap, but the CSM bikes are better in every aspect statwise plus their champion/sorceror is a character added to a bike profile. I will still argue the GM should have RA, better CC and FF plus inspiring (more like the hearthguard than the warlord). We used the 1.32 list profile again, giving another shot but next time I'll try my proposed profile.

Grand Warlord: At 125 pts it seems odd he doesn't have inv save. Even with the 4+ RA.

Thunderfires/lack of scouts: We had a situation where my opponent dropped a formation Chosen next to them and "locked" them. Again the question of lack of scouts in the list arises?

Gamewise I had a lot of fun - good intensive match-up, BL drop list are a real nut for the squats, but I found a good balance in my list. My opponent said he'll write up reports on both games (stoked as he is of his victories )
Turn 3 I won initiative (again, winning the inital roll also) and could have played consistenly and swung the game to my advantage, but decided to give his banelord a run instead of taking out his newly arrived terminators Never let the temptation get the better of you hahaha I ended up losong 0-5, oh well I got the gyros to perform like intended and tried out the overlord formation and some other things, and the list performs very well, also to adjusting tactics mid-game. This list seems more mobile than the demiurg, but I'll continue to test it, next time wtih land trains and robots I think.

Cheers,
Thomas

Oh, THAT I was aware of I ended up dropping the rhinos of one of the WH and deploying them from the pithead.

Good. And glad you had a fun game. Thanks for posting! I'm still considering giving the Tarantulas the scout ability. They won't necessarily scouts, just have the same area control that scouts do. Since Epic at its core is representative, those positions where Tarantula models are set up would be considered to be controlled by the Tarantula through small amounts of harassing fire. An automated gun platform, shooting at anything that barely moved, could qualify; wouldn't do much for the local fauna but...

Oberst, I would be very interested to see you play against a different army to see how the results pan out.

_________________
author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

hello gentlemen !


On Saturday i had a 3k game . My squads versus imperial guard.
My list (as far as ic can remember today

Warriors+5 warriors (rhinos)
warriors + warriors+warlord+grand warlords (rhinos)
berzerkes+berzerkes+berzerkos (rhinos)
3x Thunderfire (x2)
1x Thudd gun
1x gyros+hawk
1x landtrain + 2x berzerker car
cyclops
overlord

vs
imperial

superheavy baneblade
1x siege mortar
1x deathstrike
2x manticor
regimental hq
infantrie company
leman russ company
thunderbolds
valkyres 8with the 2+ rockets)

My oppenent went first. Deathstrike on my cyclops. 7 hits, shields down, two hits ,no crit ) valkyres rockets on my gyros, lost 3 of them formation broken.
great start . Marshall on the overlord and indirect fire on the thudd guns. managed to destroy one mortar.
manticore bombardment made me screem. "incoming" on my big infantrie formations. buuuums and buumms and much more big buumms ...
nevertheless, due to the formation size at least some of the small guys stayed alive.
Rolling 1 and asked myself what i was doing with my sparetime

To short it up. Things become better and by the end it was a draw. The bezerkers where the heroes of the day (space marine style, just a few of them to stand their ground), the overlord did well by vaporising the valkyres and winning an cc versus the infantrie company
The cyclops , well one possibility (in the whole game) to shoot at the superhevy tank on a 3+...guess what... . At least he guarded one objective in my half before getting killed by the leman russ company.

The thunderfires on garrison and otherwatch, i like them. 2 Shots anti tank on a 2+ (sustained)
The land train; do not know how to handle it. I decided on defending the blitzkrieg and make use of his macro weapon. Within the four rounds of play it took out 3 (or 4) tanks .The berzerker cars never saw any kind of action. waste of points ?

Infantrie ; massive and with rhinos they are very fast , and when placed in cover it is hard to get them out.


So long

Stefan


to be continued...

Good thinking. I pondered on what units could be given scout without making them to strong. Tarantulas seems like a good choice without overpowering bikers or robots who would be obvious choices for scout ability.



I think Tyranids will be next. Squats can easily play the waiting game

Take some pictures of that one. Maybe we'll put them in the supplement.

_________________
author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

FYI, to anyone with interest in the Squats, please go to this poll and place a vote in the most accurate category. Thanks!

_________________
author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

Unless the polls skew drastically to the infantry status, I believe the prudent thing to do is leave the Guildmasters as they are (light vehicles). Had most people based them as infantry, I would agree it would be a better idea to switch them. However, given that the population is roughly divided on how they have based the Guildmasters, it doesn't make any sense to inconvenience one population for the sake of another.

As it stands, the arguments for changing the Guildmasters to infantry are not enough to sway me.

Trikes are traditionally light vehicles. I understand he's only got one guy on him, but there is something of a standard here.

The size of the model: we've already argued that Robots should be Armored Vehicles, so there needs to be some acceptance that there has been some scale creep in the game. Look at the WEs and you can see how they should be bigger too.

The SM/TL has been the standard so far, and -while it isn't hard and fast- I think we can stick with it here. His armament is another matter of debate, but in terms of vehicle type I believe this is the right direction.

_________________
author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

Regarding scale creep, I've long wanted to upscale my WE. Deacon of Onslaught has proposed the dimensions of a mobile fortress to measure W70 by L80 mm (can't remember the height). How's does that measure up with the general feeling towards the sizes of the Squat WE's? Is that an appropiate size for a size 5 DC WE built to transport 16 units?

I think they should be bigger than titans honestly. The Damage Capacity is merely a measure of how many hits it can take, not necessarily the size. I've been toying with the idea of customizing some myself, but the time factor is prohibitive.

Check out these Peter Laycock pictures...

http://www.taccmd.tacticalwargames.net/ ... &start=735
http://www.taccmd.tacticalwargames.net/ ... &start=720

The second one IMO reflects the true size of a Cyclops; modeling that might be difficult, but the picture and the model give you bookends to work between.

_________________
author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

Quick battle report of my continuing testing of the Squats.

Squats used:
Berzerkers + Berzerkers + Rhinos
Warrior Brotherhood + 0-1 Living Ancestor + Warriors + Rhinos
Robots
Thunderfire Battery
Thudd Guns
Iron Eagle Squadron + Iron Hawk
Iron Eagle Squadron + Iron Hawk
Guild Outriders + Grand Warlord & 3 Trikes
Overload Airship
Land Train + Dragon Battle Car + Berserker Battle Car
Land Train + Dragon Battle Car + Berserker Battle Car

Facing off against Black Legion
Retinue + Warlord & Obliterator
Retinue + Rhinos
Retinue + Rhinos
Havocs + Rhinos
Havocs + Rhinos
Chosen + Rhinos
Chosen + Rhinos
Terminators (5)
Decimator
Deathwheel
Hellblades
Hellblades

We set up with the blitz pretty much central and the Squat TnH spread out to halfway to each edge. The BL placed their TnH close together on the Squats left flank. I garrisoned the Thudd Guns off the Blitz & the Robots between the TnH objectives (but behind a hill). CAA garrisoned his Chosen, one off each objective and his BTS retinue off the Blitz.

We then spread out our forces across the back line. In making sure that I wasn’t intermingled as I was worried about the terminators teleporting in. In the end I had a Land Train anchoring one flank and CAA took the gamble and sent in his Terminators (No BM for teleporting). SR went to the BL and the Deathwheel shot forward to shoot at the end Land Train, BM laid. The Terminators retained and engaged the Land Train. – This is where everything started to go wrong for the BL – The movement of the Terminators brought them into range and lone of sight of the Robots who immediately shot at them. Lots of 5+ hits and two terminators died... Broken terminator formation....

I decided to try out one of my new formations and fired, with the re-roll, the Thudd Guns at the Chosen on my right flank. Four hits three dead Chosen & another formation breaking for the hills.
The turn continued being a tit-for-tat reactions with the Squats advancing forwards and shooting at anything in range, managing to break a Retinue and Havoc formation & wiping out the second Chosen formation which was sent to disrupt the War Engines on my left flank.

The end Land Train was eventually broken, but not before it had shot at the terminators and wiped them out.
Although there were some failed rally rolls all the Squat formations were active for the second turn and the BL had lost two and failed to rally two.

Turn two continued in the same vein with the BL failing to do enough damage with each of their activations and the shooting from the Squats making the difference. The one thing of note was that I tried to engage a retinue in ruins with the second Land Train. This went to a second round of combat which allowed the retinue to bring in my Thudd Guns and kill two of those. In the end I was very luck with the dice rolls and won the combat, but I should have just shot at them.

Turn three became a mopping up exercise for the Squats once they had won the SR. Without having to endanger anything vital the DtF, TSNP and TnH were secured for a strong win.

Notes: Used the living ancestor rule in correctly. We used it as a re-roll, but you had to say that you were using it before the first roll. Worked well but my fault for not checking the old list to confirm the rule before play. Only needed the re-roll once though.

The BL dice rolls started off dreadfully and only improved once the game was already decided.
Robots contributed at the very start and after that didn’t do much, but weren’t required to be stretched & due to the game were not even shot at.

Thudd Guns had one great volley, were broken in the second turn and didn’t do any but place a BM in the third.

With the presence of the Land Trains the Overload was left alone for two turns. It didn’t do much but with the help of the Iron Eagles it broke the Deathwheel, but couldn’t kill it.

CAA saw the Land Trains as a big threat and went after them. If the terminators had worked at the beginning of the game then things might have been different. However, after looking at the carriage options I would not take the Mortar or Bomb cars. I just don’t see the gaming point in them & I think that the stats for these should be re-examined.

Spotter rule was almost used but the Land Train on my far left flank ended up seeing the BTS retinue to fire and the other Train failed to activate and looking at the rules we decided that it couldn’t use the spotter rule (other types of activation specifically mentioned but not a Hold).

nice battle report

did the hell blades do much during the game?

_________________
May your tankard never be dry and the Dice Gods look favourably upon your endeavours!

Hell blades went after vehicles broke a Land Train in the first turn and nothing much in the rest of the game.

Hi Moscovian! I'm working on the updated armyforge file.

I'm almost finished I just have the train left to do. I need to ask one thing though before I can finalize the file.

There's a contradiction in the army list in the train text it reads:



Which is the intended minimum for cars one or two?

I'll finish the file and send it to Adam as soon as I hear from you!

Cheers