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Need help with my Space Marines

 Post subject: Re: Need help with my Space Marines
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 3:59 pm 
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Conventional wisdom certainly says two Warhounds.

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 Post subject: Re: Need help with my Space Marines
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:53 pm 
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Epaminondas wrote:
Does one Reaver or two warhounds work better with Marines?



Depends what you're looking to use them for. They have very different roles on the table...

A Reaver will (almost certainly) be your BTS and a unit that you can push in your opponents face and force him to deal with.

War hounds are a lot more fragile and are generally used for hunting down activations and prepping assaults.

Edit: looking at the Epic UK website will show you previous army lists taken and you'll see war hounds popping up a lot more than Reavers...

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 Post subject: Re: Need help with my Space Marines
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:21 pm 
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you can try an army based around a Reaver supported by a Warhound. They complement each other quite well, though you are left with a ground-pounding army, which is harder to play . . .


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 Post subject: Re: Need help with my Space Marines
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:39 pm 
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Or gives you an excuse to play bigger games >:D

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 Post subject: Re: Need help with my Space Marines
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 10:08 pm 
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I very rarely use titans, I find marines have better options for the points. Generally the following kinds of lists seem pretty successful for me:

TACTICAL [475]
6 Tactial units plus Transport, Supreme Commander, Hunter, Razorback LAS
TERMINATOR [350]
4 Terminator units
ASSAULT [225]
4 Assault units, Chaplain
DEVASTATOR [250]
4 Devastator Units plus Transport
THUNDERHAWK [200]
1 Thunderhawk gunship
WHIRLWIND [375]
4 Whirlwinds, Hunter
DEVASTATOR [425]
4 Devastator Units plus Transport, 2 Dreadnoughts, Hunter
SCOUT [150]
4 Scouts plus Transport
LAND SPEEDER [200]
5 Land Speeder
PREDATORS [350]
2 2 x Predator Annihilators, Hunter

or

THUNDERHAWK [200]
1 Thunderhawk gunship
ASSAULT [225]
4 Assault units, Chaplain
ASSAULT [175]
4 Assault units
TERMINATOR [350]
4 Terminator units
TERMINATOR [350]
4 Terminator units
DEVASTATOR [425]
4 Devastator Units plus Transport, Hunter, 2 Dreadnoughts
PREDATORS [350]
2 2 x Predator Annihilators, Hunter
WHIRLWIND [375]
4 Whirlwinds, Hunter
LAND SPEEDER [200]
5 Land Speeder
SCOUT [150]
4 Scouts plus Transport
LAND SPEEDER [200]
5 Land Speeder

The second is more aggressive
In both lists the enhanced Devs act as a garrison
The speeders and scouts are used to force the enemy into the areas you want them
The termis/loaded Thawk for a big first turn/move punch in the face that if done right will wipe out 2-4 of your opponents formations before they get a chance to even move.

Marines certainly aren't weak, use mobility to focus on the objectives and pick your battles hitting in force when you choose.


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 Post subject: Re: Need help with my Space Marines
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 7:55 am 
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'conventional wisdom' at least on this forum and within some of the Epic-UK guys is that marines are better off with warhounds than without them, the stats on the EUK site tend to support this (although I'd be wary of using anything with sample sizes of less than 10k to 'statistically prove' much at all ;))

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 Post subject: Re: Need help with my Space Marines
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:18 am 
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+1, though it does depend on your style of play and the list you are using.

The more competitive style of 'vanilla' Marine list contains 2 Warhounds to provide solid AT capabilities and to act as the link with the main forces, 1-3 Thunderhawks and 1-2 Terminators to provide mobility and assault capabilities and usually 1-2 ThunderBolts to provide air capabilities as well as boosting activations - to a total of 6-7 activations.
The remaining 4-5 activations are usually infantry of one kind or another rather than AV because they provide more specialist capabilities that the player wants to exploit (firepower, assault, scouting etc)

Land Raiders, Predators and Whirlwinds tend to be less usefull because they are more static (Whirlwinds), or the Warhounds are considered better and cheaper alternatives (Predators and Land Raiders), which is why there has been significant debate on how to improve the balance of these formations. That said, along with Dreadnoughts, each has their place and there are many players who would choose to include one or more of these formations for particular roles.

For example, I really like to use a Landing Craft carrying Terminators with Dreadnoughts and Chaplain upgrades to deliver the best air assault for its cost (850 points for 7x MW and 10x normal dice, most of which are 3+). However, this assault does shape the rest of the list which has to be geared to exploit the results.
However, it is also vulnerable to AA, and a critical hit can occur on the way in, which can really ruin carefully laid plans
(which is perhaps why this is not considered part of the optimal list :))


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 Post subject: Re: Need help with my Space Marines
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:32 pm 
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Predators in particular are hugely underrated in my eyes, great AT firepower along with decent mobility, add in a hunter for a numbers boost....and even a couple of vindis and you have a nice little ghetto tank co.


Last edited by Meer on Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Need help with my Space Marines
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:37 pm 
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the mighty dptdexys has been known to use a formation each of annihilators and destructors in his list to great success, although even he put the warhounds back in after a few tournaments without them and a few lower placings than he's used to... ;)

edit: agreed on the annihilators and hunter, the formation puts out roughly the same firepower as a falcon formation, which is generally regarded as one of the best anti-armour formations around, also with better armour (hunter notwithstanding) and ATSKNF they tend to be more survivable and less easy to suppress....

I've got a group of each I'm planning on making heavy use of in my Imperial Fists :)

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