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Activation of Formations in Reserve in Webway/portal?

 Post subject: Re: Activation of Formations in Reserve in Webway/portal?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 4:16 pm 
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Agree with Neal.

As I read the Necron FAQ its supporting this.

"If my Phalanx formation fails to activate, can I choose to regroup off-board as opposed to just moving onto the board?
A:No. A formation in reserves may only take actions which involve moving onto the board. If it is prevented from moving onto the board the formation loses its action. A formation that is unable to move onto the board may take no actions at all. Formations in reserve resolve effects that do not involve activation, such as end-of-turn rallies or critical hit resolutions, as normal. Example: A Necron formation tries to Engage through a portal but fails to activate. The enemy formation’s Zone of Control covers the gate, preventing the formation from entering the board. The Necron formation would take a blast marker for the failed activation. Since it may not enter the board using the Hold/Move option, it loses the action. The formation may attempt to rally in the end phase."

/Jacob


Last edited by Jacob on Fri Nov 23, 2012 7:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Activation of Formations in Reserve in Webway/portal?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 6:31 pm 
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And this is where some of the contentions lie. The problem is that the rules ought to be consistent across all races, however although both Eldar and Necrons use the same basic mechanism (the "Gate") to enter the table, these rulings impact the Eldar far more than the Necrons, mainly because of the different Initiative ratings.

With Initiative 1, Necrons will usually enter the table and will always rally. However most Eldar formations have initiative 2, so they are both less likely to enter the table and can also fail to rally.

The point here is that allowing Necrons to regroup off-table is a significant advantage and plays to the Necrons strategies (rallying as well often allows the formation to be completely rebuilt), which is why that particular FAQ answer is worded that way. However preventing the Eldar from regrouping off table has a far greater impact, almost to the point of making the use of gates an unacceptable gamble.

Consequently the answer to that FAQ with respect to Eldar should read
    "Eldar formations that fail an activation to enter the table through a Wraithgate may use a 'Hold' activation to regroup off-table and remove BMs. However a Necron Formation . . . .


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 Post subject: Re: Activation of Formations in Reserve in Webway/portal?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 7:34 pm 
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Ginger wrote:
Consequently the answer to that FAQ with respect to Eldar should read
    "Eldar formations that fail an activation to enter the table through a Wraithgate may use a 'Hold' activation to regroup off-table and remove BMs. However a Necron Formation . . . .


Is the eldar really so underpowered that they need a special rule for this? I don't see a fluff reason for a special rule for eldars. I would say that the eldars will have to live with one the few disadvantages that they have, e.g. some units only activating on 2+.

/Jacob


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 Post subject: Re: Activation of Formations in Reserve in Webway/portal?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 12:07 am 
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Jacob wrote:
Ginger wrote:
Consequently the answer to that FAQ with respect to Eldar should read
    "Eldar formations that fail an activation to enter the table through a Wraithgate may use a 'Hold' activation to regroup off-table and remove BMs. However a Necron Formation . . . .


Is the eldar really so underpowered that they need a special rule for this? I don't see a fluff reason for a special rule for eldars. I would say that the eldars will have to live with one the few disadvantages that they have, e.g. some units only activating on 2+.

/Jacob

The Eldar are not underpowered in that respect. However Eldar formations are intentionally much more fragile, have a significantly greater chance of failing to activate, and less ability to remove BMs than Necrons. So the potential impact of this is considerably greater for Eldar, and this FAQ is forcing the Eldar to accept the risk of that happening.

IMO this impact, when combined with the greater fragility of Eldar Storm Serpents, tends to make the use of 'gates an unacceptable gamble when compared with other Eldar strategies.

However, it is also clear that the Necrons must be prevented from 'rallying' twice off-table. Hence my suggestion for different answers to the FAQ for the two races.


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 Post subject: Re: Activation of Formations in Reserve in Webway/portal?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 5:01 pm 
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Borka wrote:
Ok Neal I have interpreted this issue like you do. Just one question what's your view on the reserve-formation-gate-usage if the formation fails their activation? Are they allowed to remain of board as part of their hold action and regroup? Or do they have to use the move option in your opinion? Would you allow a second formation to try and deploy via the gate (if the first don't have to) or is it "used"?

Originally, the guys I played with allowed a formation that failed activation to stay in the webway and rally, but in discussions on here it became all too obvious that people had come up with all sorts of different decisions on what happens.

I'd treat it all like the Necron FAQ. Once the formation activates, it has to attempt to enter the board. That would mean Hold/Move is the only option. It cannot Hold/Regroup. You can think of it as and order for "We're going through now, Now, NOW!" and then something going wrong. The group stumbles through the gate unable to recover from the mishap and act coherently.

If the formation is prevented from entering for some reason (usually enemy Zone of control), the action is lost. In that case, I'd say the gate wasn't used and would be available for another formation but that's just an off-the-cuff answer.


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 Post subject: Re: Activation of Formations in Reserve in Webway/portal?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 5:26 am 
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FWIW that FAQ was written with the blessings of the ERC. I seem to recall us discussing at length that the FAQ would have broader reaching implications other than the Necron and everyone involved seemed comfortable with that.

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