LordotMilk wrote:
Legionnaires:
I do not quite understand why the Legionnaires should be better than Berzerkers at CC. Aren't the latter THE dedicated CC assult infantry of Khorne?
Actually they are Lobotomised yet have not devolved so far as the Berzerkers. In this regard, they do have a sense of tactical purpose in battle (unlike Berzerkers) even though they are pumped up beyond what one would expect of a standard Marine.
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I would swap the CC stats between the two (aka. 2+ for Legionnaires, and 3+ EA for zerkers). After all the Zerkers are the weakest of the Cult Marines. This would impact BL but not in any meaningful way.
I am not in a position to change official stats of units (Khorne Berzerkers). This is a deciusion for the Chaos AC (Steve54) and any changes he feels to be worthwhile would then roll down to the World Eaters. My predicament from the start was balancing the Khorne Berzerkers in a list dedicated to their ideal.
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The Legionnaires are then non-jet pack CC assault marines with a better CC. Perhaps a point decrease for the formation (25) or a FF increase for the legionnaires to 4+ would be in order?
Any solution here depends on the Khorne Berzerker stats as above. I also have to balance out the points and ensure the retinue is not too expensive. From past experiences, all Cult lists have been short on activations (the true secret to the game unfortunately) which has led to a lack of fun in playing these lists. Recent changes to all the Chaos lists are hoping to change this. Hence I have no interest in increasing costs but rather make the list representative at an Epic level while still being fun to play.
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Zerker Retinue: I would give up the Rhinos as you propose. Also, I would add a Vindicator option at 35 points. This would give them a cheap way to add BMs on enemy formations, and they even could garrison with one.
Not really keen on Vindicators as I see them more of a Marine AV that was in effect after the Heresy (before the establishment of the World Eaters). Am I incorrect?
Happy to consider them, otherwise they are the realm of the Cult Renegade lists.
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Terminators: Yay for the point decrease. Alternatively they could be priced the same as BL, but with a 4+ FF?
If I am to remain comparrable to the other units in this list, the terminators sit at CC2+. In this regard, I have to consider the impact they have at their standard entry into battle - teleporting - hence their increased cost. I am open to matching the BL stats however that does not really make them stand out as World Eaters which is something I would rather keep.
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Chosen: Price decrease would be good. They are a scout unit which cannot place BMs (apart from Rough Riders which are more numerous and run way faster are there any other?). This is a big deal in practice, as it leaves with little viable options as a garrison. They could even be cheaper. Also see my point on legionnaires, as they currently follow those stats. Any way they could get a flamer gun at 15 cm, or as an upgrade? This lack of BM ability is really an issue I think.
The issue with Chosen are their uses beyond what Black Legion use them for.
The first option which is comparable is the drop retinue. A cheap drop activation with
Scout is quite an effective tactic to upset an opponent's 'stand and shoot' tactic - especially with a Daemonic Pact.
The second option is by placing them (starting) on 2 Slaughterfiends (garrisoned and on Overwatch). With a 75cm shot, or a 40cm charge with Infiltrate and the amount of attacks from that unit alone is a formation that will force opponents to give up teir Overwatch counters or even be forced to reposition their 'soft' units across a table. This is something that BL Chosen cannot do as effectively. Add in Daemons and drop force and you have a very worried opponent.
Note that they also have access to Land Raiders!
