Oh, one other thing... I will be out of town, June 4-10, effectively disappearing again. It is temporary and planned. So, as Douglas Adams says...

DON'T PANIC

i actually had a post on this that i seem to have deleted before going to bed, rather than posted.
i think the dangers (percieved or otherwise) of the current system are as follows:

three guys who all agre, while rare, is functionally little better than one person making a decision on their own. even the catholic church figured this one out, and they're usually pretty keen on the whole "one dude making decisions for everyone" schtick. so if the bossman picks people he gets along with and agree with him, he's basically saying "i know best, everyone listen to me" which is, i'm not so sure, a good idea given recent dramas. it also results in the situation you get in politics whereby elderly votes are prominent, and result in conservative candidates because people get stuck in their ways and ways of thinking.

which brings me to point two. if we only pick the people who have been at it for a long while, we're going to be stuck largely with ideas that have been at it for a while. bring in some new blood, new perspectives. when everyone in the ERC comes from the same club/school of thought/tournament history, then things will largely stay the same. that doesnt seem to be working out great for us at the moment. there are some divisions which seem clear to me within the community.

and point three. not everyone who plays epic lives in the UK. i cant speak to the US much, but a lot of what seems to happen in Australia runs rather differently to that of the UK. it would seem that we have a slightly different perspective on a bunch of things over here. and at the moment, we are not represented by the ERC in any meaningful way. its been suggested that an EANZ committee be formed. i think thats going further than we need right now, i dont think our differences are sufficiently vast, and i dont think we should split the community further at this stage. but if the general feeling in australia is that we dont have a voice in the ERC, then perhaps its something we would consider more carefully.

now, i'm not saying all of this is a serious problem, or even that i believe it all myself (but see point 1) but what we need in the system, however many voters or whatever we end up with. is a young passionate (preferably aussie) type who is open minded but able to come up with their own ideas. they also need to have the time to dedicate to the position as needed, without significant plans (or children) about to interupt this.

its also worth pointing out that a 3 person system doesnt work well with any two people who normally disagree on most subjects, as it puts most of the power in the hands of the third person. sticking with 3 people in the idea of keeping voting on issues on the table is not a great one, you need more participants for that to work (i'd say 7 as a minimum) to allow for 'crossing the floor' on issues. and if its going to be based on agreement, a larger number makes decisions harder to achieve, but more fair in the process. so why not bump the numbers up a bit. it'd certainly put some room in for points 1-3 above, and provided you dont simply pick a majority from people who always agree, would allow for a 'minimum number of yay votes to pass' alllowing members to bow out or otherwise miss the vote due to real life pressures?

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~Every Tool Is A Weapon, If You Hold It Right~

I really don't want this leading to some kind of netERC constitution formalising powers and protocols. At the end of the day, this is a game, not politics.

+1

Bloodbowl (really the only other large enough SG group represented worldwide) was run by 7 before GW took exception to Tom Anders. That team effectively got a Living Rulebook up to edition 6.

Boundaries did not seem to be a problem either as the Pacific was well represented in that team.

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Frogbear is responsible for...
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or me.

I have a lot of time for next week or so.

says the man essentially running for mayor :P

it is politics. it may not be democracy, but its definitely still politics.
i'm not calling for a system of government. i'm saying that a larger group, with a few basic transparent guidelines would solve many of the problems currently plaguing the committee and the community at large.

hell, i think fixed terms might be a good idea too. stop people getting too comfortable or sitting on their haunches, plus ensuring a fresh intake every few years would keep the system moving forwards, not backwards (upwards, not forwards, and always twirling, twirling towards freedom)

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I'm not running for anything, I haven't put my name in the hat.

I've just been appointed Necron AC and am not interested in taking anything else on at the moment. I started this thread to get things moving, not to get the role myself.

ya may want to pop on over to the nominations thread and say that then, you've already got atleast 1 nomination, and with you putting this whole thing into motion, one could easily get the wrong idea.

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~Every Tool Is A Weapon, If You Hold It Right~

Can we please not second guess the process currently ongoing? People are free to nominate anyone they think are suitable, without the approval of the person that they nominate. Once the nominations are in, then I will ask people if they actually want things to stand. We have a NetERC by neccessity, as without one things would never get done. Not wanting things to devolve into a political constitution is very different from having a small group of dedicated players attempting to keep all of the plates spinning at once, and doesnt preclude someone from being nominated - and even potentially taking a position as - a plate spinner.

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It's a pretty bizarre way to elect officials TBH.

Aside from being a popularity contest, shouldn't the people who want the jobs come forward first, then people can vote for them in an actual poll.

This extra stage of nominating people without their commitment will just end in most of them politely declining and the remainder who want the job being voted on, it's an extra level of time-consuming beaurocracy that TacComms is notorious for.

It would be nice if people were a little more constructive! If we have a totally open vote system, we end up with a NetERC comprised of people who all want different things, pull in different directions and get nothing achieved. We get cries of how its just a popularity contest and some people saying that why dont the NetERC just pick someone to join. If we have the NetERC just selecting people, we end up with calls of the secretive nature, of how people are being excluded because they are not part of the 'in group'. So, we now have a system which is supposed to feedback to the NetERC to guide them when they pick someone, which allows people to nominate those who they think would be good and put themselves forwards, and its 'typical beaurocracy'?

Well, if we want to get this entire system and game back on track (and, right now, its a pretty big 'if') then we need a little bit of organisation, and bit of setting up to get it on its feet, so that we can go back to painting and playing and having rules and lists that are updated and evloving.

I am just getting extremely tired of the constant in-fighting, criticism and general shuffling of feet. We need to open some windows, let some fresh air in and start having a bit more fun about the game.

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I think the point people are trying to make is that having this nomination system is likely to produce in-fighting, conflict etc.
For example if we have a bunch of nominees with a couple getting a dozen nominations then loads with one or two then doesn't it just add to the secretive etc perception if the appointees aren't the most popular candidates.

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I was being constructive.

People put themselves forward for the position/s.
Polls are conducted for forum members to vote for them.

Either the most votes gets the position (popularity contest) or the NetERC group decide from the potential candidates taking into account their vote count (cloak and dagger).

You've added an unnecessary stage of nominating people without their commitment or interest- a true popularity contest.

Point is, your never gonna get the perfect democratic system, people will always scream one corruption or the other- that's why politics is a murky, grey, confusing and tricky area.

When you combine politics and the internet (another place renowned for in-fighting, bickering, childishness and trolls) it's never gonna be pretty.

You need to elect people who are prepared to say when ideas and suggestions are stupid and why, to push on towards a goal and deadline and to realise the internet is a fickle and shifting place. It's amazing how many people shut up moaning when you put an 'official' stamp on an army list as complete and tell them to go away and play some actual games with it.

Internet forums are always the gritty business end of wargames and can be extremely disheartening if you allow it to get at you or absorb most of your 'wargame time', people don't generally have fun about wargames on forums, they're there to discuss, argue, suggest- you have fun when your actually playing the wargame, that's what keeps you coming back.

As someone who actually follows the NetERC rulings, I don't think CS's method is all that bad.


Didn't CS say that popularity would be a considered factor?

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