Standard Scouts with Transport : 150
Standard Scouts without transport: 125
Standard Scouts without transport + sniper: 150 points

The real question to be asked is whether a formation of scouts all with Sniper at 175 points hitting on 5+ or 4+ when sustaining (rare) or 5-6+ on the move (most likely), is under priced. In a list that does not have the air assault support of the standard Marine list, I feel the discount would be appropriate.

It would also make them a viable choice vs Land Speeders.

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My tendency is always to start underpowered, then work backwards from there.

At 175pts they're very, very attractive.

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Let's not talk about the attractiveness of scouts. This is a family friendly forum, remember ?

Thanks for your input Hena. As the Marine AC, I do appreciate your input


Easily done


Are you stating that I should remove the Firebase or just adopt the setup for placing fortifications? There is nothing in the list stating anything about the setup for the fortifications, so general concensus is to adopt the Siegemaster rules which is what I have been using.


Well do you want updated Tarantulas or Rogue trader ones? That is the discrepancy and I am not going to adopt the older form when I have support for the current version of them that have existed for many years now.


We did extensively discuss this, however happy to go with what you want to mark as your seal of approval. Understand this also effects the Land Raider Achilles. The removal of IC really does effect the usefulness of this weapon. The AT6+ is pretty much useless.


That was one of the ideas I had as well. I still think Expendable is warranted as a skill. Your thoughts? Also is 30cm AA correct for this formation?


We did have this discussion as well. Do people really see Marines repositioning Sentry weapons after a battle has started? In reality, the points spent to move these weapons (Land Raiders) is prohibitive and will not be used. I do not wish to create an element within the list that will not be used - I am being very conscious of this. Everything must have a use and be a viable option.


I am here all year, 3 shows a day Come by any time. I will keep your name on the door

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Simulated Knave is only willing to use stats that represent the Tarantula as it was 15 years ago.

I think he's compromised by calling it a "Pre Heresy Tarantula" or something.


Thunderfire is not an artillery cannon. It is nothing like an Earthshaker.

It is more like a rapid fire light Demolisher cannon.



Rhino transport was proposed.

Then it was pointed out that Space Marines would rather stab themselves in the leg than waste Rhinos (And their Space Marine crews) lugging around static sentry guns during a battle. The IA text makes it clear that they use Rhinos to move Tarantulas around between battles, but not during battles.

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If it's to fiddly then give the Thunderfire Cannon Disrupt AND Ignore Cover as it is able to switch fire modus on every shooting turn in Wh40k. And as we know a turn in Epic is a whole game of Wh40k it makes sense that the Thunderfire Cannon has alle the Wh40k abilities AT ONCE.

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If it's really that fiddly to have an altenate firing mode (I don't think it is) then I agree with BL, keep both.

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I really do not see a problem with alternate firing modes as long as the entire formation uses the same ability.

If it is a problem, I would rather play it with both then. My main issue was losing IC which would really effect it's usefulness.

Now I have to look at their points again to see if a change is warranted - the madness never stops

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I am curious to find out opinions on the below...

In attempting to create the mud marine list, it is apparant (to me at least) that INF take a secondary role to vehicles.

The goal was to create an iconic INF based force, yet upon considering some competative layouts, I come out with lists such as below (disregard point values as these are being recosted now):

============================

- 10 activations
Land Raider Achilles x4
Land Raider Achilles x4
Vindicators x6
Vindicators x6
Vindicators x6
Vindicators x6
Land Speeders
Land Speeders
Thunderbolt Fighters
Thunderbolt Fighters

~75-100 points left for character upgrades
- Vindicators could even be swapped to add to the size of the Achilles formations if required

============================


The army list allows one to play INF, however in an attacking role, examples like the above seem to be the best. Limiting the opponent's AP fire and retaining movement speeds of 25cm+ is quite inviting.

Is this a real issue?

I notice tournament lists can be very different from iconic examples of the army being represented (Orks without the larger numbers, Marines without the armoured support, etc). Does this fall into the same boat?

What I do like about the list so far is the choice available. One can build a tank force, or they can have a heavy INF build. It also has the iconic use of the Firebase, tarrantulas and Thunderfires if required.

The list is open with no restrictions apart from the SC. Should it be left like that or should the list force a player to buy up INF? Are people happy seeing the Imperial Fists represented as the example above highlights?

Edit: I am inclined to leave it as is, maily due to the fact that I like choice. I am not looking to change it, I am looking to see what people's feelings are towards it - that's all

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I have just posted up V0.8 on the front page

Changes of note:
- Vindicators went to to 250 points
- Removed Hyperios Command Platform and any rules associated with it
- Renamed Terminator formations and removed Army note about them
- Reconfigured the Land Raider purchases to include Achilles as an upgrade with upgraded stats and costings


Land Raider Achilles formations will be tested at 425 points for 4 with RA4+ and FF4+MW (after upgrading Land Raiders). This gives the list a little more choice in this department which is what I have wanted to trial for a few weeks now.

By starting the Land Raider Achilles at such a high cost, it should help determine whether they are a viable choice at such a large points slump. If a viable option is 7 formations of these, then I guess we will have an answer of sorts and go from there

I feel we are not far from a version 1.0 release. Any assistance and ideas are always appreciated.

Cheers...

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I'd be wanting that FF3+ on a 100pt tank, personally.

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Big on the AP, but the first standard Marine army it faced would likely wipe it out with extreme ease (no AA, lots of CC6+ tanks with moderate armour).

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