Date: 30/10/2010
Points: 3000

Rules Used
Black Legion NetEA doc
Imperial Fists V0.5 - small change to Vindicator purchases as per thread

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Imperial Fists - 3000
425 Tacticals + Crusaders
350 Terminators (Stormhammer)
325 Land Raider Achilles x4
300 Vindicators + Hunter
375 Whirlwinds + Hunter
175 Assault Marines
225 Devastators
- 50 Fortifications
225 Devastators
- 50 Fortifications
250 Thunderhawk Bomber
150 Thunderbolts
150 Thunderbolts

Black Legion - 3000
315 Retinue,+rhino +1 vindicator. 275+40+35
315 Retinue, +rhinos 275+40
385 Retinue, +1 defiler 275+75
165 Chosen+rhino. 125+40
485 Terminators +1 terminator+ Oblitx1 + DP + Warlord 260+65+85+50+25
275 Defiler Pack
160 raptors
275 Deathwheel (model substituted with Land Raider)
275 Deathwheel (model substituted with Land Raider)
175 Hellblade
175 Hellblade

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Note: This was Apoc's first game and I do not normally play shooty forces so no doubt we are both making major error. Please be gentle

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Set Up

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Turn 1 - Imperial Fists win initiative

No Teleports
Thunderbolts Cap
Hellblades CAP
Thunderhawk GA Raptors - 2 dead and broken
Chosen double into Factory shoot at devs for nothing
Land Raider Achilles move up and fire on BL Retinue causing 6 hits with Disrupt, killing 5 models and breaking the formation
Defilers move forward and fire on Land Raiders killing 1
Vindicators Move forward
Death Wheel moves forward to shoot at Tacs. ! hit which is saved
Whirlwinds move to back of forest (I mistook their setup with the Vindicators)
Deathwheel doubles to shoot at LR Achilles for no hits
Assault Marines double towards Raptors
Retinue in Rhinos towards factory
Tacticals fail activations and remove BM
Vindicators move to centre of table
Thunderbolts go on CAP
Hellblades go on CAP
Devs fail and remove BM
Devs remain on OW


- defiler formation fail to rally
- raptors fail to rally





Teleports
- BL Termies next to BTS

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Turn 2 - BL win Initiative

BL Termies Charge BTS
- 6 dead tacticals + 1 dead LR vs 2 dead termies. Marines wiped out and Terminators broken and run into RHS forest
Retain with Deathwheel and sustains vs LR Achilles. no kills
Achilles fail actions and fire on Terminators killing Obliterators and 2 terminators with BM
Deathwheel shoots on Achilles for no hits
Thunderhawk GA Retinue with Rhinos. Hellblades CAP for no wounds. Continues killing 2 INF units
Defilers Sustain on Achilles killing 1 and breaking the formation
Whirlwinds fire on Chosen killing 1 unit and another from the broken Retinue with a Defiler
Retinue in Rhino move and shoot on Devs for no hits
Vindicators move up to centre table
Retinue double to fire upon vindicators for no kills
Devs remain on Overwatch

Hellblades lose one when coming off the board from Hunter

Daemon Prince Rallies
All other BL formations fail

Teleports
- Imperial Fists Titanhammer Termies teleport into forest near Blitz

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2nd game, just first game playing someone who knew the rules (which generally helps)...

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Turn 3 - Black Legion win the initiative

Deathwheel sustains vs Terminators killing 1
Defilers retain and sustain vs Terminators
Vindicators Move and use terminators to enable a crossfire vs retinue with Rhinos killing 2 INF units
Hellblades stand down
Thunderbolts GA Retinue with Rhinos killing 1 INF and 1 AV breaking the formation
Deathwheel assaults Terminators. None die however Deathwheel wins by 4 killinjg 2 units leaving 1 to run back to Blitz
Thunderbolt GA Chosen killing 1 INF and 1 AV breaking the formation who move into Factory
Retinue with Rhinos sustain vs Devs killing 1.
Land Raider Achilles move and fire on Daemon Prince for not wounds
Assault go back to grab blitz
Whirlwinds fire on Daemon Prince for no kill
Thunderhawk Bomber GA Daemon Prince for no kill
Devastators marshall
Devastators remain on Overwatch


Terminators fail to rally
All other formations rally



Score
Black legio: 1 BTS
Imperial Fists: 1 DTF

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Turn 4 - Black Legion win the initiative

Defilers move back to secure own objective and fire on vindicators killing 2
Hellblades retain and go on CAP
Land Raider Achilles move and fire on Daemon Prince killing him
Deathwheel moves and fires on Vindicators killing none
Vindicators get the hell out of dodge and Marshall
Retinue with Rhino go into Factory with 3 Rhinos failing DTT. Fire on Devs for no kills
Thunderbolts GA Retinue with Defiler. Hellblades CAP killing 1. Thunderbolts continue for no kills.
Hellblades CAP
Thunderhawk GA Retinue for 1 kill
Retinue with Defiler Marshall removing all BM
Devatators go on Overwatch
Chosen manouvor to capture 2 objectives
Devastators reassurt their Overwatch
Death Wheel Sustains on Devs for no hits
Whirlwinds fire on Retinue in Factory killing 4 and breaking them.
Retinue with Rhinos Marshall removing 2 BM
Thunderbolts GA Retinue with Defiler. Hellblade CAP for no hits. Run continues killing 1 INF and breaking the formation.
Raptors move to deny ATSNP objective
Assault move up towards Raptors staying within Blitz




Score
Black Legio: 2 BTS and DTF
Imperial Fists: 2 BTS and DTF

No continuance.

Tiebreaker
Black Legion: 837.5
Imperial Fists: 1207.5

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Thoughts on the battle to come when I free up some time.

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Good batrep.

I have to say that it still seems odd that a defensive army has to rush out of that defensive area to capture its objectives in the other half of the board. It just seems tactically wrong to me as it forces piecemeal attacks with small formations who have to leave carefully prepared positions and go it alone to win the game.

Problem as I see it, is that if you do not force it, you end up with an army that does not move and concentrates on massing out it's firepower - quite boring to play with and against. As it stands, the objectives force you to build an army with these in mind, and if you build your force to sit there and shoot, then you are limiting your options.

If initiative rolls had gone a little bit more in the IF favour, you may have seen a different set of achieved objectives which included points on the other side of the board.

I find an overall balanced list, rather than a stand and shoot far more preferrable.

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Yeah, I can definitely see your point.

My problem is the list is all about Defense, not Defense ... with a bit of attack thrown in. I could see the IF objectives being about denying the oppositon their objectives rather than capturing territory from the attackers. You could very easily get great games from a more sedentary "gun line" theory if you marry it to the the enemy's need to capture the IF defended objectives and the IF's need to deny them.

Something like(and I'm sure it could be worded better but...):

Stalwart Defense
IFs are the masters of defense and consequently they approach the battlefield with a different mindset in terms of objectives, always looking to stop their enemies capturing points of strategic value.
IFs gain the TnH, DTF, BTS and Blitz GT objectives only if they deny the capture of their opponent's own objectives in the IF half of the board. They still gain the TSNP objective normally.

To me it would generate great fights around objectives and stop the last turn speed rush to capture objs in the enemy half of the board - something I know you're not that keen on.

just a brainstorm of course.

That rule would almost be impossible. Effectively the whole game wouuld rely on DTF to get any other points. The opponent would just have to drop a 3xlanda or 3xThunderhawk to prevent them from getting any points (TSNP being a bi-product of them gaining any points). It is just not Epic, and I would not play such a list with a restriction unless all troops were significantly discounted.

I like the GT game and the force is made to be able to play in any scenario - rather than force a special rule into a scenario.

All defense and no attack makes Frogbear a very grumpy boy.

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After battle thoughts:

Terrain
After setting up and placing down the minefields, I had to apologize to Apoc for the map taken. It was from an older game against TRC where we both had assaulting armies to some degree. I did not realize the impact of 50cm lengths of mine till I was able to effectively block off a large area of the battlefield into fire arcs. I will be more aware of the terrain in future reports.

The Firebases were fantastic to sit in and the mines were an extra bonus. With Devs sitting in each, it was if the whole area was a kill zone in the opponent's mind. Whether this was an exageration or not, they were quite effective, and I think they are a valuable edition to the force to start ahead of the line to defend their own objectives. The adopted rules for Fortification setups worked fine and after this first game, with the objectives placed as they were, there was no real need to even consider how a different set of rules for their setup would improve the situation.


The Battle - Imperial Fists
After the boon of the minefields blocking off a large area, I was plagued with bad luck. In addition to confusing my Vindicators and Whirlwinds and therefore totally messing up their setups, I could not win a Strategy Roll after round 1, and it felt like any formation that decided to take a BM ended up failing their initiative roll. Add in the fact that I kept confusing different stats (assaults move 30 - not 35, and Vindicators no longer have MW4+! ) and you have a player who is desperately attempting to claw a strategy together after realising what a dill he is. I did however get incredibly lucky with some Whirlwind fire as well as some saves when it really mattered. These things alone kept me in the game. Overall, quite a comedy of errors where I was lucky enough to come out with a Draw and eventually a win from countback.

Overall I do really think the list works well. I would like to keep playing it on different tables however as the terrain in this game favoured the Imperial Fists greatly. I have updated the Imperial Fists thread with changes I think are appropriate for the list.


The Battle - Black Legion
After seeing the setup of the Imperial Fists, the Black Legion appeared to fear the Overwatch greatly. I felt that it would have been better to trust in the Retinues and Deathwheels to break the defence. Death wheels with their shields and Retinues with their numbers could have charged up the field with guns blazing to then set up a 2nd round free-for-all with their Terminator drop. I feel that Overwatch can be over-rated at times.

The Daemon Prince was a pain in the proverbial and I feel I just got lucky in taking him out - thank goodness for the Achiiles Land Raider and their MW. Even then only the one save was failed after many activations worth of shooting at him.

Once again the Faction rule was non-existant and again makes me think that it should be scrapped or changed.

Also Steve54 (if you are reading this) - please fix the first post in the Black Legion & LatD thread. You have both links in the first post with the first being the one downloaded by people. We came across quite a few errors and discrepancies that needed to be clarified by Apoc downloading the 2nd link (updated one) .


Final thoughts
A really enjoyable game and we are planning to set up another this week if we can manage it

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Yep, i don't know why i didn't just move the death wheels in either, if not in earlier turns then at least in turn 4 to contest one of your objectives. I feel that i spent rather too much time faffing about at range plinking away on sustain than really getting stuck in, mainly due to having no form of plan for what i was doing

I was pleasantly surprised with how well vassal worked and really enjoyed the game. I feel i now have a much better grasp of the rules, especially aircraft.

For next game i will :
* Have a plan rather than just reacting to opponent's moves
* Re-read objective set up rules and pay attention to where i put them
* Actually read the opponent's list (failure to do so saw me spending the first turn under the illusion that the terminators were being transported in the T-hawk and that the tac+crusader formation was in-fact 6 termies+crusaders... )

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