Adam was around this week so we took a break from the 'nids and played a 5k mega-battle with the big boys. Orks won it in the 4th 2-1 with DTF and Blitz to BTS. AMTL would have won in points, there were LOTS of engine kills!

Matt, can you post your list?

OGBM

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Dave

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Start of Game


Start of Game


Starting with one of his most important units, Adam doubles some Lootas into a building.


Matt follows suit by doubling up some Sentinels.


The Lootas holding the right flank double to the woods.


The Warhounds double to take a shot at the Big Guns, which overwatch them and lay a BM.


Two Big Guns go down and they break.


The other Big Guns double and lay another BM.


The other Sentinels double up the AMTL right flank.


More Lootas double to a building.


The Knights double towards the center.


The last of the Lootas go on overwatch.


The TLD/IC Warhounds double and fry some Lootas.


The BTS Great Gargant doubles and lays some hurt on the Warhounds.


A Reaver doubles and takes out 3 Power Fields on the BTS.


Big Yellow doubles on the Warhounds and breaks them.


The other Reaver hits the BTS again.


On the Ork left flank a Gargant doubles and strips some Void Shields.


Invictus Iugis doubles on the BTS, stripping more Power Fields.


Zzappy Gargant #1 lays some BMs on the Reaver and Invictus Iugis.


Indistructus II hits Zzappy Gargant #1 with a broadside and takes down 3 Power Fields.


Zzappy Gargant #2 and Choppy Gargant #2 double on Invictus Iugis and strip two Void Shields and lay BMs.

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Turn 2, the Warhounds on the bottom didn't rally.


Zzappy Gargant #2 sustains on the Reaver on the left and lays a BM and strips it bare.


Big Yellow covers the BTS and doubles on Invictus Iugis, stripping 2 Void Shields.


The Warhounds open up Choppy Gargant #1 and strip its Power Fields.


The Big Guns sustain on the Reaver and lay a BM.


The BTS doubles on the Reaver and breaks it, scoring a crit.


The Invictus Iugis advances on the BTS and takes its down to 8 DC.


The Reaver follows suit, dropping it another 2 DC, the Big Guns then double on the Warlord and strip a Void Shield.


Choppy Gargant #1 doubles on the Warhounds.


The Sentinels double on the Lootas and lay a BM.


The Lootas attempt to loot a Warhound.


But die horribly in the result, the Warhounds take 1 DC and have their shields stripped.


The Knights double up to the center.


The Lootas attempt to march, fail and regroup.


The other Lootas double back to the hill.


Zzappy Gargant #2 strips the Invictus Iugis of its Voids.


Choppy Gargant #2 doubles up and lays some BMs, taking another Reaver Void down.

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Turn 3


The Invictus Iugis sustains on the BTS and takes off 3 DC.


The Reaver follows suit and takes another DC off and Breaks it.


Bravely run away, away!


Choppy Gargant #1 gets into a brawl with the Warhounds.


It wins, taking a Warhound down, but breaks from the damage.


The Warhounds double up on the left flank and cook the BTS.


The Knights attempt to engage and fail.


Big Yellow doubles up and drops some templates on everyone.


Choppy Gargant #2 firefights the Reaver and breaks it.


The Marauders still aren't ready to come on yet.


Zzappy Gargant #1 advances on the broken Reaver.


Indistructus II thoroughly guts it.


The unbroken Reaver makes short work of the Zzappy #1.


The Big Guns make short work of the Reaver.


The Sentinels march to contest.


The other Sentinels double on the Gargant to no effect.


The Lootas in the woods double on the Sentinels, taking down one and breaking them.


The Other Lootas double on the Sentinels and break them as well.


The Big Guns double out and lay a BM on the Knights.

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Turn 4.


Choppy #2 gets into close combat with Invictus Iugis.


It brings it down to 4 DC.


The Big Guns attempt to sustain on the Sentinels, fail and shoort, breaking them again.


The Knights engage Choppy #2.


4 Knights go down and Choppy hacks the rest down.


Indestructus II makes short work of Choppy...


Choppy #1 doubles on the Warhound and breaks the Sentinels.


The Warhound advances on Choppy and breaks him.


Big Yellow doubles for Blitz and fails to do anything to Invictus Iugis.


End of Game

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Dave

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Wow. That's the most Gargants/Great Gargants I think I've ever seen in a list. Were you doing this to check out the effects of the discount on those units? Whether that was intentional or not, what did you think?

Is this a list you would have taken against a blind opponent, or was it geared up knowing you were facing AMTL? I ask because it looks like a lot of TK.


Again, wow. It was a legitimate DTF, not something you did with the Grot Attack. Did you think Grot Attack made a difference in terms of knowing you had that fall-back flexibility? Or was it a non-issue?

Given that DTF is pretty tough to get normally and AMTL only had BTS, which they concentrated on early and often, did you feel like the game was balanced?

Adam had asked me to make the list for him. Both Matt and I made the forces knowing we only had 3 hours to get a 5k game done, so we went big (or as Adam says, "Go Great, or go home!") rather then going for activation count. That being said, Adam definitely thought another Gargant would have been better than the Lootas.

In terms of the 50 point discount I don't think it made a huge difference in this game, I'll let Matt weigh in with the opponents point of view though. It effectively gave us another two activations in this list but only one of the Big Gun formations really achieved much this game (Reaver kill).

As far as a blind opponent list I would have taken more AA, but otherwise I don't think I would have changed it much. A third Soopa gun on a Gargant doesn't get you much (just an extra BM) so I'd much rather take the Zzapp over it. I went half choppa and half zzapp though, hoping he could get into base combat on at least one turn (and he did, with both of them).

Not sure on the Grot Attack fallback question, I'll have to ask Adam if he knew about it. Based on how things went on his left flank I'd lean towards non-issue. With the Warhounds and Sentinels coming down on him there he brought back a Loota mob and kept one sitting there for most of the game to help out the Gargant that had 1DC left.

On balance, I thought it was given how close the game was. Had it gone to points you would have been looking at a 2200 to 1300 AMTL victory, assuming the Warlord rallied. I think both of them had fun at any rate. I particularly enjoyed Matt swearing at his Marauder pilots.

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Those jackasses... I might've missed it, but I didn't see the bit in the batrep about them failing to activate in every turn but the 4th. Even when they had the chance to redeem themselves, all their BP and both AT shots missed. So I'm not sure more AA would've mattered either

My list (AMTL 3.18):
Warlord Indestructus II (standard + legate) 900
Warlord (apparently named Invictus Iugis) (2TLD, laserblaster, plasma destructor) 900 [I know, 2 BTS is not a good idea]
Reaver (ApocML, gatling blaster, volcano cannon) 675
Reaver (Plasma cannon, TLD, ApocML) 650
Warhounds (Inferno cannon + TLD) 550
Warhounds (standard) 500
Knights 375
Marauders 250
Sentinals 100
Sentinals 100
total: 5000 points

For all the good they did me, in hindsight I would've dropped the last 4 activations, switched my TLD warhounds for Dave's standard ones, and taken his blue warlord.

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Let us playtest like the Greeks of old... You know the ones I mean

You had e-mail me about the second Warlord in April, "Perpetually Invincible". I thought that's what you went with.

Seeing Deus Malleus walk would have been cool... until you marched him up to serve as bait...

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Ah, I had forgotten about that. Perpetually Invincible does have a good, jinx-inducing poetry about it. Maybe I'll save Dux Bellorum for one of the reavers, then.

Oh yes, Deus Malleus would've had a tough row to hoe in this battle

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Let us playtest like the Greeks of old... You know the ones I mean

Dave noted to me after we stopped that I could've guarded my blitz with the knights to prevent that victory condition. I guess I got caught up in trying to kill gargants over getting objectives. I did feel outnumbered as far as titans went; I spent zero time researching the ork list, so I had no idea that they got a discount.

I also don't think that the grot thing was an issue in this battle, but it certainly could have been. I'm not sure that it's really fair to have some non-unit able to claim objectives if the gargant happens to walk by - seems like E:A abstracts that sort of thing out. If it was a unit you could break by shooting, then I might feel differently.

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Let us playtest like the Greeks of old... You know the ones I mean

With the changes to 3.18 and the TLD going back to 25 points, any thoughts on how that worked out as you put the list togther? Also any thoughts on the knights with the changes?

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-Vaaish

No, not for me anyway. I don't play against AM or AMTL too often though. A 25 point bump for an extra 15cm of range over a VMB seems fair for the TLD when you couple it with better AT. I definitely don't think they're worth 50, is that what they were?

I think Matt was going to drop the TLD/IC variants for the VMB/PBGs to beable to fit the third Warlord in.

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Yeah, it would have been strictly a means of fitting Dave's warlord (Fodderus Maximus) into the list. I like my TLD warhounds. Besides, having all those blue titans in my otherwise muted army would've picked my OCD scab a little too much

25pts is reasonable and a nice even number (well, 'even' in the technical sense, but you get my drift). Plus it doen't mess with the standard (as sold by SG) warlord loadout. I knew there'd be lots of engines to shoot at, so TLD's were an obvious choice.

It should be noted that this wasn't a complete test of 3.18 as is, because we ignored the god machines rule. I've never agreed with that one and don't view it as particularly fluffy. Adam and Dave didn't seem to have any trouble breaking my engines without it.

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Let us playtest like the Greeks of old... You know the ones I mean

Moral Victory to Adam!

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Dave

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