Dobbsy + Neal

If you wanted to make Nemesis larger and turn 2 or even 3 projects into one, would you consider the following:

- Thousand Sons v Space Wolves
- World Eaters v Grey Knights
- Emperor's Children v ? (Ulthwe Eldar)

Obviously the above would need Chroma to agree as well but then it could also include:

- Black Legion & Lost and the Damned v Cadian Shock Troops + one other?

I think the strength of Chroma's additions would make the Nemesis supplement a highly sort after one and help push some of the other minor lists.

Thoughts?

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Might I suggest making this "Nemesis" supplement be a "showcase" of the four Cult Legions if it's necessry to get up the page count?

Thousand Sons vs Space Wolves
World Eaters vs Grey Knights
Emperor's Children vs Alaitoc Eldar (I *really* want to give this Craftworld some love!)
Plague Marines vs Perhaps a Tau variant, to show decay vs innovation? Or is there some other cool combo? Orks of some kind?

Each of these pairings could be "stand alone" without tying into another pairing, unless really necessary, so this would be, in essence, a "combo pack" of four smaller supplements.

Thoughts?

Either would work for me. The most important thing to do is obviously getting the actual pdfs put together. My guess is that many of these questions will answer themselves as the work is completed... Or not completed. If two mini's are done and a third is stalling and a year off, the choice will be pretty easy to make.

The idea of "Nemesis" was to pair off traditional rivalries in mini-supplements. It was an idea to get some lists out in circulation in manageable bites and then package it up later. It wasn't really intended to be a cult legion thing.

I don't really have a problem with making it a cult legion thing, but as Mosc points out, it's all about getting it done. TSons and SW? I think the lists are pretty good and we mostly need a final round of testing and scenario work. EC v Ulthwe? Same. I think those can get knocked out quickly.

World Eaters v Grey Knights? I don't really think these are historical rivals, but I can see the "diametrically opposed" feature (SM psykers v CSM anti-psykers). However, GK are pretty up in the air and Lord_I isn't pushing it. This could take a while.

Death Guard don't really have a traditional rival. I don't know how to fit them into the pattern.

I don't think cults + enemies is a reasonable goal. If we want a cult supplement, then it probably needs to be just cults, and Steve54 needs to be heavily involved. It's also a big block that has to be done together rather than a "do the pieces and fit them together later" sort of thing.

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As far as size...

I talked to Dobbsy and I think we have ~60 pages of stuff planned as it stands.
~5-6 forward and table of contents stuff
~15 for each list, including background
~8-10 for modeling
~6-8 for scenarios (aiming for 4)
~10 for other stuff - fiction, appendix models (Suns of Damnation is 4-6 by itself), etc..

Assuming you can break out duplicate material (like daemon rules) when combining, each pair is going to add another 30-40 pages.
~20-25 for the two lists
~3-5 for modeling
~3-5 for fiction and scenarios (assuming 2 scenarios)

Page counts would be:

2 pairs - ~90 pages
3 pairs - ~120 pages

Could an idea be to base it around a chaos incursion on a system - one planet TSvSW, another ECvUlthwe and then get another faction to interfere at a crucial juncture. Say EC are about to gain upper hand against Ulthwe and WE arrive with feud against EC and/or tide is turned against TS by another Imperial faction arriving

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Don't worry about Death Watch. Lord Inquisitor has volunteered it for Epic: Xenos.

Does is have to be cultists?

Why not Imperial Fist vs. Iron Warriors. If that isn't opposites, I don't know what is.

Do either of these armies have a list written? I know I am about to place forward an Imperial Fists idea. I do not have an Iron Warriors list in my collection so not sure if one was ever done

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The reference is made to the first war of Armageddon where the Grey Knights sent Angron back to the sin-bin I believe.



I have contacted Lord I and he will commit the time needed as long as we are determined to make the supplement a reality - as in he does not want the time invested to go to waste.

I can say that I am 100% committed to the World Eaters and Emperor's Children and can help push playtesting for the Space Wolves and Grey Knights (as I have started as recently as last night).

Does that alleviate some of the concerns?

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I don't mind. Whatever attributes to the greater good. They are the Rangers right?



Either that or we could bring in one of the Marine or Imp Guard that need some loving as well. The issue with Tau for me is that debate is still going on with models in the force. Orks have a lot of support already, however it would be good to see something like KOLONEL ROMMELZ'S BLOOD AXE MERCENARY ORK WARHORDE make a showing in a supplement one day

What I would be leaning more towards - if we were to include the unknown extra - would be the SARANES EXPANSE IMPERIAL CRUSADE ARMY LIST or a variant thereof. It would cater to the Marine and IG needs I would think.

Thoughts?

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Well I've just been chatting with frogbear about this, but there is one major war where grey knights and world eaters face off and on Armageddon too...

I'm willing to work on the lists towards supplementation but there needs to be a concerted effort - I don't want to put effort into something that fizzles out.

I was thinking the same thing....and mention in the IF list thread. IF with 50-30% IG Support Forces.


I would love to see this list out and tweaked. Maybe not that list, maybe a new one from scratch but I would like to see a mixed Imperial Force.

The last Iron Warriors list I could see when I had a look was Steve54's Hydra Cordatus pdf. I've got an Iron Warriors army, know a fair bit about their background, and may be able to put some work into an iteration of the list.

And on the Grey Knights discussion, if there isn't a specific conflict for them, what aboot Grey Knights v Word Bearers? Seems a natural pairing to have the demon hunters against the force that works with demons the most. Thinking about what the WBs would bring to the table to be a unique army, they could have demon elements that operate as normal formations, instead of being summoned, maybe. Or, you could even translate the Chaos Demons codex to Epic...

Well in reality it all comes down to who is prepared to do the work. History would show, only a few. If we are able to get 2 or even 3 supplements done in 2 years, that would be a miracle in itself.

All I can say is that I can commit the World Eaters and Emperor's Children to the supplement, and they at least have some form of history of development from previous lists to be where they are today.

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Hyra Cordatus? If it has a Chaos Warlord weith "Corvus Assault Pods" on the Carapace mounts then i developed that list.
But i think there was another one who also did an IronWarriors list.

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