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Epic rules, document design and you

 Post subject: Re: Epic rules, document design and you
PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 11:58 am 
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Siege was in A4, but I think Raiders was in Letter. :-)

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 Post subject: Re: Epic rules, document design and you
PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 12:00 pm 
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Ahh curse the Anglo-American divide!! :D


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 Post subject: Re: Epic rules, document design and you
PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 12:28 pm 
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Apocolocyntosis wrote:
What did you do to the background (im eager to learn/get pointers) i can sort of see that having the transparent box over the texture etc is awkward but couldn't get it to work by just putting a transparency colour fill in the frame with the texture in it.

I haven't used CS3 for a while, but I get the feeling that a lot of these things were updated for CS4. Transparency can now be set by a slider in the toolbar, so as long as you've got the image box sent to the back, you can just adjust as you see fit.

Otherwise, simply right-click on the image, select 'Effects' and then you can play around with the Transparency directly in the box – no need for an overlay. Again, this might be CS4 specific (but hey, at least it's not Pagemaker!) :D

Quote:
Is there a better way to organise the fluff/'table' boxes? currently im just using offset/padding and then stacking them up manually.

As regards spacing within the boxes (particularly the table), the best bet would be to play with the 'indents/spacing' and 'paragraph rules' parts of the Paragraph Style Options, which gives you proper access to arranging the text within the box.

For between the boxes, I'd just use a standard distance (3mm or so) and check 'em with the guides (you can select multiple guides with shift+left click). This works particularly well if you've established a baseline grid (though that causes all sorts of headaches for complex illustrated files, so I tend to leave it off and do it manually).

On a more general note, I'd strip the boxes off the Master page, and keep them in a Library/on the pasteboard, then drop them in as necessary. I like to keep the Master pages as clean as possible (or have more than one for various options), as this prevents potential mistakes at ozalid stage (such as something at the back being brought forward by accident).

If it's a simple case that you want to delete the default master boxes from the specific pages, you can select them with a ctrl/cmmd+shift click, which'll give you access to the Master items on a specific page (apologies if this is teaching you to suck eggs! :P ).

Quote:
I think a background pack might be a useful thing for the community. I took a load of pics for generating epic document tuxtures at some point and then never did anything with them, got some nice matted seaweed and barnacles that might get some interesting nid results./quote]
Yes, free stuff is good for everyone in the community :)

Quote:
my editor sense was tingling!

:-[ ;) I have a particular blind spot for typos in capitals for some reason. I trust you found the other 2 copy mistakes as well :D (2 missing fullstops in titan notes)

It was certainly an entertaining proofread – I chuckled at the range '>9000' and 'Ignore Margins' special rule. :D


Dobbsy wrote:
What's the acceptable paper size when it comes to printing army list documents - say for a supplement? A4 or US Letter...?
[/quote]
Depends on the size of your print run, the supplier, and who wants it, really. I work for an illustrated book publisher, and most of our stuff's relatively short books in compact print runs. American A4 (called Letter by our friends in the Kingdom of the Freedom Eagle) tends to work out the cheapest for us, but it'd depend entirely on what's wanted.

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 Post subject: Re: Epic rules, document design and you
PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 1:04 pm 
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Apologist wrote:

As regards spacing within the boxes (particularly the table), the best bet would be to play with the 'indents/spacing' and 'paragraph rules' parts of the Paragraph Style Options, which gives you proper access to arranging the text within the box.

For between the boxes, I'd just use a standard distance (3mm or so) and check 'em with the guides (you can select multiple guides with shift+left click). This works particularly well if you've established a baseline grid (though that causes all sorts of headaches for complex illustrated files, so I tend to leave it off and do it manually).


Paragraph rules etc should all be set already in the relevant paragraph style. Only indent currently is right side for notes so that they clear illustrations, the rest is on the text frame inset. The standard distance for separation is currently 'in' the text box insets, if you stack the boxes on the edge of the frame the otherwise excessive inset should give a regular space without needing to measure (didn't know how i was 'meant' to do it, this just seemed like a fast way to set it up :D ). CS4 smart guides do look useful though...

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 Post subject: Re: Epic rules, document design and you
PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 3:13 pm 
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Apoc was it you who provided me with the nessesary fonts files for doing the pimped up Red Corsairs list?

Also i have grafics of all the various "tactical symbols" which are used in the rulebook.
Example inthe attachment


Attachments:
RC1.2Seite1.pdf [69.42 KiB]
Downloaded 228 times

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 Post subject: Re: Epic rules, document design and you
PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 3:25 pm 
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BlackLegion wrote:
Apoc was it you who provided me with the nessesary fonts files for doing the pimped up Red Corsairs list?


No :)

That's looking good. The rule on the header rows of the tables is too close though, your chopping off the descenders.

Not a great fan of the tactical symbols myself (outside of marines), given that it is a structural division for the 40k game system, copying it across to epic where it has no concrete role in the game structure seems a bit arbitrary.

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 Post subject: Re: Epic rules, document design and you
PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 3:40 pm 
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I'm more for race/army specfic tactical symbols :)

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 Post subject: Re: Epic rules, document design and you
PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 4:38 pm 
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Oh dear God, please no more A4. The original supplements were not in A4. I have no idea what size they were but they were smaller than US Letter (8.5x11 inches). E&C made Siege in A4 size and it towers over Raiders, which is bigger than the original supplements.

This isn't a big deal in pdf formats, but it sucks for me when I have to ship the printed versions. Siege doesn't fit into a standard size box whereas US Letter or smaller does. Worse, I can't find any A4 boxes which means I am stuck with a larger box and that costs extra money for the purchaser. Thankfully they fit in the mailer envelopes though. For future projects, I am mandating a size limit of US Letter or smaller.

--

This is a good read, although formatting guidelines are just that: guidelines. Sometimes the layout won't work in any way unless you really abuse the margins, font size, or both. I'd like to get InDesign in the future but for most people who are using open source programs or Word, sometimes you just do what you can.


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 Post subject: Re: Epic rules, document design and you
PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 5:00 pm 
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I made Siege in A4 out of habit, as basically everything in the UK is done with A4.

But I've started God Machines in "Letter" size, instead. :-)

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 Post subject: Re: Epic rules, document design and you
PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 5:15 pm 
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Wasn't meant to be a dig, just a rant. I spent an hour going from one office supply store to the next with no success.

Another reason to not use A4: It is bigger. That means whatever project you are working on will be that much shorter (in page numbers). I really need these things to be 60 pages or more (preferably a lot more) for a variety of printing reasons.


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 Post subject: Re: Epic rules, document design and you
PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 5:32 pm 
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In Germany A4 is standard too.

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 Post subject: Re: Epic rules, document design and you
PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 6:47 pm 
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It may be standard paper, but it apparently isn't standard supplement size. Show me some love and go smaller, will ya? :)


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 Post subject: Re: Epic rules, document design and you
PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 7:17 pm 
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My reply dissapeared...

Moscovian wrote:
This is a good read, although formatting guidelines are just that: guidelines. Sometimes the layout won't work in any way unless you really abuse the margins, font size, or both. I'd like to get InDesign in the future but for most people who are using open source programs or Word, sometimes you just do what you can.


Correct. For Battlefleet Gothic the way to go is in the landscape style. And yes, official is smaller then A4. But for convenience sake I made Project Distant Darkness, Eldar MMS and Warp Rift on the A4 size as that is what I am used to.

But for the Art of Command, a story based scenario supplement, landscape was unsuitable so I made it portrait.

Starblade speaks for itself as that should be portrait all the way.

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