Onyx wrote:
Jstr19 wrote:
Range stretching does not effect how far the units can shoot it affects where hits caused by those shots are attributed. If you have your formation within 15cm of only one base in an opposing formation range stretching with FW's means that hits caused by those shots can be applied on targets up to 90cm away. It does not mean pulse carbines can fire from 90cm away. In effect it allows you to minimize the comeuppance you receive in a following engagement.
So let's imagine Fire Warriors were shooting at a Scout formation.
The first Scout is 14cm away. The second is 34 cm away. The third is 54 cm away. The last is 74cm away.
The Fire Warriors have LOS to all the Scouts and a Skyray in the formation. In effect, this is going to mean that Pulse Carbines have a 90cm range as even though the Tau formation has no AP attacks past 30cm, they will be able to hit and kill the Scout that is 74cm away with a 15cm AP5+ attack.
That is... odd to say the least.
I will try explaining this to the local players but I think they will all have the same thoughts that I have.
All that said, there are only a few times when this mechanic would've made much difference in games and it certainly doesn't adress my main concerns about the present list.
You have to imagine that if any stands are removed from outside "actual weapon ranges" in situations like this that , as in an engage action , the units removed may not be just be outright kills.
Things like troops losing the will to fight,panic,fear,confusion or just becoming combat ineffective due to sudden loss of friendly troops nearby are a reason for them to be removed.
If players are finding it hard to understand when you're explaining it then taking a similar situation in an engage action (where 15cm range weapons, small arms, can kill units as far away as there are units in the formation being targeted in the engage) should make it easier to follow .
As an example,
Take a formation of 12 Ork stormboys strung out from corner to corner, diagonally across a table (could be over 200cm from end to end) which also have BM's .
A formation of 12 Fire Warriors engage one end of the ork formation bringing just 3 boys into FF range . Only 15cm range weapons are used (small arms range) and kill those 3 stands.
The Tau could win the assault by enough (with a good combat resolution roll along with +3 for kills,+2 for BM's,+1 for outnumbering) that they could be killing all the ork stormboys (hack downs). Even though they are out of LoS/LoF and are more than 15cm's away some even up to 150 cm's away all due to small arms weapons (15cm range).
In fact hack downs from engages don't have a limit on how far they can spread, unlike ranged fire.
So if those players can understand how an engage action using 15cm range weapons can account for units being removed from target formations as far away as the far corners of the table with no LoS/LoF. Then they should be able to understand how the same ranged weapons can account for units being removed within LoS/LoF due to pooling of hits.
Onyx wrote:
Ginger wrote:
Don't forget that you only get 'Disrupt' if all the Units that are firing have it (see FAQ). As the Skyray does not have 'Disrupt' on its Seeker missiles, the Tau player must choose either to fire the Skyray and 'stretch' the hits across the entire target, or fire only the FWs weapons and allocate 'Disrupt' hits to those enemy within 30cms.
Does that mean that for the Fire Warriors to get Disrupt on their ranged attacks, they can only fire their Pulse Carbines?
(I remember this now when mixed Guard artillery formations are used and also with the Imperator)
In that case they would only get one shot per stand and only out to 15cm if they wanted the Disrupt ability.
That doesn't make the FW as good as some are claiming at all. Have all the winning Tau players been playing this properly?
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No, Ginger is incorrect. The rule about "disrupt" hits and similar only applies to BP weapons. In the case of FW all their shots can always be fired to full effect.
The FW units all have 'Disrupt' so if only these units are fired, then, the special ability is applicable. If the Skyray also fires to get the extra range, as it does not have Disrupt the ability is lost.
The other point is that to gain Disrupt from their carbines, all the FW have to be within 15cm of a target. If any FW unit is outside 15cm, it cannot fire it's carbine so that unit does not have Disrupt either. In this case, to regain Disrupt that unit could also elect not to fire etc.
Note, hit allocation is a separate debate here. The Pulse rifles mean that hits can be allocated up to 30 cm away, and if the Skyray also fires at a markerlit vehicle, potentially this allows hits to be allocated up to 90cm away - but probably without applying Disrupt.
