To the original post, 10x activations is the bare minimum I would field because IMHO Eldar work best when they can gain and maintain an activation advantage. I would consider dropping some of the upgrades to increase the unit count to 11, for example drop the Wraithlords and the additional 25 points in the Rangers to gain a second Windrider troop; or drop the gate and the Support weapons for a third Ranger formation, and convert the Storm Serpent into a second Falcon formation. Another thought is to mix some Swooping Hawks or Shining Spears into the Aspects reducing the number of Wave Serpents (and hence cost).

As Mathewmuppet says, Warp Spiders with the Autarch is a 'brave' choice, because its logical position is off-table to be deployed through a gate. However this means that you are gambling on not needing the Autarch's re-roll until it arrives - usually towards the end of the first turn. I usually just put Exarchs in the Warp Spider formation for this very reason because they work best when deployed from a Vampire or Storm Serpent.

On other upgrades for Guardians, I prefer Wave serpents to Vampires because they provide permanent protection, increased formation size and mobility. With the troops on-board the formation gets a 55cm engage range and is less vulnerable to artillery. Vampires are the weakest transport, leave their troops unprotected and make a 'smaller' assault formation. But they are a good combination with Warp Spiders. However, the reinforced Guardians can be left to march up the table on foot - they make a formidable defensive formation to hold onto your own objectives

On AA, I have experimented with only using the Night Wings to scare off ThunderHawks, and was pleasantly surprised at the results. The other formations need to take this strategy into account - for example using Rangers to screen the Void Spinner, flanking the weaker formations with stronger ones, etc. The premis here being that enemy fighters do not do much damage to an unbroken formation, while the army can be deployed to minimise the impact of enemy transports (which rightly fear the Nightwings).

As Ginger says, activations are the key - Eldar are very fragile and quickly fold with even a few casualties and BMs, so more activations gives you that much more tactical flexibility longer into the game. Unlike most other races, bigger Eldar formations aren't that much tougher than standard sized ones.

You can also play Eldar in a whole host of ways, which Ginger's also written about in this forum. I play Ulthwe, so my personal favourite is to used 2 guardian fms with wraithguard (and wraithlords if I want a nasty BTS fm) attacking out of a wraithgate or stormserpent, 1 on the blitz with a seer council and 1 in a vampire for harassment or blitz grabbing late in the game. The rest is filled out with 2 fms of 4 falcons+2 firestorms, couple of ranger fms, a nightspinner fm and some nightwings. I generally use my nightwings either defensively on CAP in within my own flak umbrella (so I have protection against being CAPd myself) or aggressively on CAP, using my Vampire to lure out an opponent's CAP before wiping it out with my Nightwings. All depends on how many interceptor fms my opponent has - the last few games have been against airdropping armies with 3+ interceptor fms!

My usual battle plan is to shield my stormserpent with rangers and a nearby falcon fm, move slowly forwards for the 1st turn waiting for my opponent to come within range, then isolate and wipe out chunks of the enemy using my wraithgate and stormserpent. Doesn't always work, but it's pretty reliable and can be super nasty when you get it right.

There are however lots of other options - warlock titan punching up the middle, aspects loaded into vampires, guardians loaded up in wave serpents (though I've had that blow up spectacularly too).

Although i love the Warlock, i have took on board what people have said and amended the list, this is what i have come up with:


Aspect Warhost - 2 x Striking Scorpion, 4 x Dire Avengers, 2 x Fire Dragons inc Exarch & Autarch - Wave Serpents - 600 pts
Guardian Warhost + Support Weapons - 200 pts
Aspect Warhost - 8 x Warp Spiders inc 2 x Exarch - 350 pts
Falcon Troupe - (2 x Firestorm) - 250 pts
Falcon Troupe - (2 x Firestorm) - 250 pts
Wind Rider Troop (2 x Vyper) - 200 pts
Ranger Troop (4 x Rangers) 100 pts
Void Spinner - 250 pts
Void Spinner - 250 pts
Vampire - 200 pts
Nightwings - 300 pts
Avatar - Free

Leaves me 50 points more than likely for 2 more Rangers. Also gives me 11 activations, which tends to be more than the rest of my opponents.

I'd seriously consider combining these into one formation to get the benefits of a 6BP barrage; certainly you lose an activation, but it's worth looking in to.

but then you only get to disrupt the monkeys out of 1 enemy formation

I'd still very strongly reconsider the Striking Scorpions in the aspect warhost - you only get their extra attacks in CC and given that the rest is super FF orientated, you'll either risk losing those CC attacks if you firefight (which is generally the most powerful assault mode, especially if you're clipping a formation) or risk your FF units being drawn into close combat by an enemy counter charge. You also lose out on the killer "wave serpents up front as a RA hit shield nasty Eldar firefight" tactic, where you can absorb return FF hits on your wave serpents (as they will always FF, even if based) rather than your softer infantry. Think about either adding more Fire Dragons, Dire Avengers or even Dark Reapers (to make the formation more useful after the assault).

what's going in the vampire? the warpspiders? that'll be a nasty assault beast.

I'd also consider taking upping the Falcon count in your fms from 3 to 4 (total 6 tanks) if possible as Falcons are rather fragile and the extra tank, in my experience, helps them stay in the game that much longer. Case in point - in my last 2 games I lost 2 falcons out of each of 2 fms, 1 of 5 and 1 of 6. The one of 5 broke, the one of 6 didn't and then marshalled, restoring my AA to 100% for that formation.

My preferred Aspect Warhost is 2 Reaper Exarchs and 6 Avengers. 4x 3+ and 16x 4+ including Wave Serpents, with 2 Inspiring. I prefer 'pure' Fire Dragon formations myself.

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I've never used Fire dragons, but mixing them up with Dark Reapers or Dire Avengers would, theoretically, maintain some degree of tactical flexibility. The Dire Avengers are absolutely kick ass against infantry, especially those without armour saves (which also tend to be more numerous, like IG or Orks), but flounder a bit against armour, whereas Fire Dragons are downright nasty against armour, but slightly less effective vs. infantry (especially if they're in cover, which they should be if they have no armour save ). Just an idea though, I'll have to start playing Biel Tan more to try it out as I rarely take Aspects with my Ulthwe army.

I've not played aspect heavy lists all to often myself, but that formation is double my Aspect Troupes in my Iyanden list. Realistically, the sheer volume of fire should take the day. You're averaging 10 2/3 hits (2 2/3 kills) against a Tank Coy that will return 5 hits (3 1/3 kills, or less if WS take the shots). Static CR will average 4 in your favor if you prep properly. That's without supporting fire.

FDs would make 3 hits and 4MW hits, for an average of 2 3/4 kills. There's not a huge difference against low armor saves/RA, but Avenger/Reaper formation comes out on top against high/no armor saves.

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Hey chaps, just thought id get some thoughts on a 4000 point list. Most of the guys im likely to play against are off to Britcon, i wont be going because well......im crap at Epic So heres what im thinking of:

Aspect Warhost - 2 x Striking Scorpion, 4 x Dire Avengers, 2 x Fire Dragons inc Exarch & Autarch - Wave Serpents - 600 pts
Guardian Warhost + Support Weapons - 200 pts
Aspect Warhost - 8 x Warp Spiders inc 2 x Exarch - 350 pts
Falcon Troupe - (2 x Firestorm) - 250 pts
Falcon Troupe - (2 x Firestorm) - 250 pts
Wind Rider Troop (2 x Vyper) - 200 pts
Ranger Troop (6 x Rangers) 150 pts
Void Spinner - 250 pts
Void Spinner - 250 pts
Vampire - 200 pts
Nightwings - 300 pts
Phantom Titan - 750 pts
Avatar - Free

Total - 3750

Its essentially my 3000 point list, but with a Phantom thrown in for good measure. With the 250 points im not quite sure what to do, ive been considering one of two options:

1) Webway plus 2nd Wind Rider Troupe

2) Upgrade the Guardians to be in Wave Serpents and chuck in another unit of Rangers for good measure.

So what are peoples thoughts on the list?

what is your general plan of attack? Who's going to be doing what and with who? Thinking about stuff like that ahead of time makes list building a little easier.

I know I sound like a bit of a scratched record, but wraithguard are one of the best units in the Eldar army IMO, even if you're only going to use them as a blitz guard (6 MW5+ on overwatch should give teleporting terminators something to thing about). Last game I played had a plain wraithguard + guardian unit fight 5 rounds of combat (over 3 separate assaults, 1 while broken) against a horde of chaos bikers and daemons and only succumbed at the very end in turn 4.

I'd also take a wraithgate at the very least.

How are you going to deliver your Warpspiders into combat, in the Vampire?

I'd look at how you can increase your activation count - 12 isn't bad, but only 10 of those are objective capturers, though the Vampire can at least contest. Perhaps take another 6 stands of rangers, but split them up into 3 fms of 4 as opposed to 2 of 6, add a wraithgate then add heavy weapons to the guardians.

then you have a beefier blitz guard, a spare fm of rangers to guard the wraithgate (plus another 2 to shield the phantom and void spinners against drops/ air assaults/ teleports) and a bunch of other options.

The different views make for very interesting reading. From the couple of games i have played and the others ive watched, Eldar i feel need to be played offensively. I never thought Guardians were actually that good, but i supposed when combined with the armour save of the Wave Serpents it offers them a little bit of survivability. As for squeezing in a second unit of them i really dont know how to.

well, there are lots of different ways to play Eldar, all of them valid. Whenever you use Guardians (either assaulting, Blitz guard, whatever) make sure you can keep or get them in cover after their activation otherwise they just need to be looked at sternly and they'll die.

as for the Phantom and Rangers, it'll only take a formation of terminators (Chaos or SM) or an Ork Landa filled with boys to take it out, powerfist or not, so for the sake of 100pts, I would strongly consider giving it a screen.

Armed with a powerfist I'd never even consider assaulting the phantom with any flavour of terminator - those 3 TK attacks and a 3+ holofield save even in CC(plus in built AA) make it a suicide mission with only a small chance of killing the titan

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