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why do I have to move?

 Post subject: why do I have to move?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 12:47 am 
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Quote: (Hena @ Feb. 11 2010, 18:37 )

As far as rules go, I think the flanking should be done before getting too close to enemy. Scout allows creating confusion to enemy with they ZoC currently and by removing that, you'd downgrade their abilities a bit. I think it's better to allow some tricks to enemy as well :smile:.

Its not that I don't want to allow tricks for the enemy, its also that I don't want to take unfair advantages for myself by playing rules wrongly or insisting other people follow made up house rules to their disadvantage. I believe in playing fairly. :smile:

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 Post subject: why do I have to move?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 12:58 pm 
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Quote: (BlackLegion @ Feb. 11 2010, 00:28 )

So in short: A unit moves or already is in an enemy unit's ZoC and it's formation takes an assault action it is forced to move into BtB and can't just stay where it is and FF?
So in order to use it's FF value (unless it is a Skimmer) the unit has to be 5 (10 in the case of Scouts)or more cm away from any enemy unit ?

You say a unit can be forced to move and the rules say that a unit is never forced to moved.  Hmmm?

You will need to re-write the rule for                  1.12.3 Make Charge Move

change the sentence which states Make the move normally, as described in the movement rules given previously.

It will require its own unique movement rule. It is forced to move just because you say so doesnt cut it for me.    

This has never come up in any game I have played but has made an interesting topic.  Thanks for your views and points but I still believe no one has really answered the question.  
I will avoid this situation at all costs as it contradicts itself.

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 Post subject: why do I have to move?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 1:06 pm 
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Quote: (Chroma @ Feb. 05 2010, 15:03 )

Here's a conceptual explanation of why you "have to base" when in a ZoC, particularly a scouts ZoC, and ways to mitigate it that I wrote in another thread:

[quote]This is normally not a "problem" as the enemy ZoC is only 5cm, so there's no need to base them, unless you've somehow started your activation within it; this "must base" only happens with scouts' 10cm ZoC as that represents the "possible" locations of the scouting troops.  

The soldiers "on the ground" don't have the god's eye view the players do, nor do they "take turns", as the players do, nor do they stand on little rectangles like the models do.  The scouts' extended ZoC is similar to the concept of an electron probabilty cloud, the actual scouts are "somewhere in there", which is why the enemy has to react differently to them than more closely operating enemy troops.  It's an abstraction of the "unknown" location of the units for the troops on the ground.  As they move around in the "scout probability cloud", there's a high likelihood of them making dangerously close contact with the scouting elements; the game represents this by forcing you to base in this situation.

This "scout probability cloud" can be a false hope by the scouts.  Why are all scouts experts at sabotage and covert and never fail.  I am sure not all ambushes have gone to plan and the hunters have become the hunted.

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 Post subject: why do I have to move?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 1:28 pm 
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Quote: (Morgan Vening @ Feb. 07 2010, 12:33 )

Because an exception trumps a generalization? It's fairly standard for a rules set.

It's been clarified that "beginning in a ZoC" and "entering a ZoC" are considered identical if engaging the unit whose ZoC you are in.

A unit is not required to move in an engagement, UNLESS it enters/begins in ZoC. Then it MUST, to the limits of it's movement. It's fairly well defined with the above clarification.

You seem hung up on the 'move normally' statement. I believe this refers to everything that doesn't contradict the initially referencing rule (turning, other units blocking, coherency etc).

Morgan Vening

What the generalization here?  I am concluding that a unit during its movement is never forced to move.  When you take an engage action you follow the movement rules.  

if "beginning and entering a ZOC " are one and the same then the unit is now forced to move. If you say its clarified then OK its clarified.  I would like to the rule changed and worded differently to avoid later confusion.

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 Post subject: why do I have to move?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 1:31 pm 
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wasted enough energy here.  back to painting

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