MW is in section 2.2 specialist weapons.

In the unit datafaxes, sometimes it is mentioned in the Firepower Column, sometimes as a note.

Regardless, we could easily bundle MW and certain other weapon abilities into some kind of a "second round of allocation" class.

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Isn't the LV allocation thing now codified in the official FAQ?

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Ah yes, there it is, I see that now.

EDIT: I'd add that the FAQ merely reinforces the rules where they state:
"You may not allocate a second hit to a unit until one hit has been allocated to every potential target..."


Still, I think that the mixed target type case isn't really the same thing as the mixed weapon effect case - in the very least because the special effects case was not covered by a question in the FAQ (a weak reason, I admit) and surely it's as obvious a problem as the former if that weren't the intended outcome of the rules.

Wouldn't one possibility be to allow the Defender to allocate Hits, but allow the Attacker to declare (in blocks), when the hits are assigned?

Some examples.
Fire Warriors sustaining into an Ork Mob.
Rolls 4 normal hits, 3 Disrupt.
Tau player decides "Normal then Disrupt".
Ork player assigns 4 normal hits then 3 Disrupt.

Eldar Sword of Vaul (2FS, 3FP) fire at a Mechanised Infantry Company w 3 outrider Demolishers.
Rolls 2 normal hits and 3 Lance.
Eldar player decides "Lance then Normal".
IG player assigns 3 Lance hits, then 2 normal hits.

It helps to retain the 'defender picks', as you don't get to specifically target characters (unless your dice are exceptional), but allows certain effects to more likely be placed where they'll do more good.

Morgan Vening

Having just tried to follow some of the arguments in this thread, I definitely agree with you.

I know I haven't played to this set of rules for anywhere near as long as most of you, but some of the ideas here are making my head spin, and don't really help less experienced or new players to get a grip of the rules and game play, so while the LV situation seems like a pretty straightforward fix, can everything else please just be left alone?

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I understood the principle to be that hits should be allocated to maximise their effect. If that is the case then IMHO the wording should be something like:-

In principle hits should be allocated both to maximise their number and their effect within the 'front-to-back' process. So mixed shooting hits on a formation with LVs and other units should have the hits allocated to maximise the potential damage, while MW, Lance and TK hits are allocated in a separate round.

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Sir Hemry Newbolt

This favours shooty armies.

I fail to see any reason for making armies like IG and Tau any better than what they are with such a rule.

Leave it for the opponent to decide. If the shooty player want the max effect, fire more weapons.    

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From someone who doesn't know the rules in depth, I dont see it as a bad thing to have special attacks "soaked" up on occasion. More than likely those Tk weapons are sniping at  VERY expensive pieces of hardware. How fun is it to have your awesome, fun, neat titans/whatever getting their brains hallowed out on the first turn becuse your shields had to take the lascannon hits first and not the super planet destroying melta blast?

I think preserving some of these targets until the game has a chance to play out, HELPS the game more without letting these special attacks become more deadly and more punishing.
If you change the way hits are allocated you'd have to visit the points cost of these special attack units.

So ya. More hassle.

Remember the second round for MW is a fix, a patch.

"We want the defender to allocate hits to stop sniping - we don't want the defender to be unhappy about that"

"Yes, but now the defender allocates the MW hits against cannon fodder/shields first and allocates the normal, less powerful hits against the juicy stuff - now the shooter is unhappy."

"Uh, Ok well lets have a second round. Hooopfully the fodder/shields will have been removed and the MW hits have a greater chance of being applied to the juicy stuff. Now everyone is happy"

"Uh, ok sounds good"

6 Years later.

"Um, now we have people complaining about their Lance/special weapon of some sort being unfairly allocated against the fodder"

"Damn!"

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To some extent this is probably due in part to list creep. Whilst list creep in epic is glacial in nature, compared to other games, it has happened.

As new lists are designed more formations seem to get weapons with special rules. This has probably lead to the current situation were we have 2 rounds of allocation by the defender, but they are under peer pressure to allocate generously to the attacker.

This is a storm in a tea cup over a part of the rules that happens more often than it did when the only lists were the 3 in the core rule book.

Seconded.

Leave it as something to be discussed in the 5 minute pre-game chat. This game is inaccessable enough for newcomers as it is.

It (allocate hits widely when shooting at LV formations) is already part of the Official rules (Official FAQ) and has been for years.


I don't know, it (watching my 'special effect' shots be allocated to Grots, or similar) happens all the time for my Steel Legion (a Core 3 list), probably because I'm the only person in the world who regularly takes Hellhounds (those things are overpriced at 150pts IMO).

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The official FAQ stipulate you maximise hits, not effect.



I agree its very sporting if you as the defender always grant special effects and allow your characters to get hit, but a player picking up the rules (and FAQ) may not see it that way.

True, I was just pointing out that half of what Gavin is proposing as a rules alteration (the part about maximising hits) is effectively already official.

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