Morgan and I were discussing the micro-management in Epic A and how the game could do without it.

I was wondering on people's thoughts regarding such a topic.

Example:

Space Marine Assault Unit has a CC 3+ and a FF 5+

What is the purpose of the weapons listed?

Why even have Assault weapons if they add nothing to the game?
Why have (Small Arms) listed where the fact that they have a FF value already meansd they have a (15cm) range?

My own belief is that weapons should only be listed if they add something to the base stats. By getting rid of such things, we would all save so much more room on reference sheets and the like.

So, what are people's thoughts? Should we get rid of the cellulite that is (small Arms), (15cm) & 'Assault' if it adds nothing to the unit?

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It's nice to know what the standard firearms of each unit are- even if it has no effect on Epic Armageddon stats.

I think they have a place in the list for the background/flavour reasons and so people know what weapons units are armed with.

Wouldn't object if these weapons were missed off reference sheets to save space though.

When 3rd edition Epic first game out, GW got a huge negative response from 2nd ed fans saying that the game was too abstract and didn't contain enough 'chrome', as Jervis called it.

When Jervis came round to thinking about a 4th ed, Jervis (obviously) didn't want another debacle for epic.

Those redundant small arms lines contribute to the 'chrome' of each unit type. As we all know, Assault Marines do have Bolt pistols so these are listed, even though, as you say, they contribute nothing in game mechanics terms.

Interestingly, Devestators have bolt guns, but these are not listed!

Like Glyn, I have no problem with such things being ommitted from reference sheets. But I think it would go against an original design principle to leave them out of the main unit 'datafax'

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And if my Melta Weapons are within 7.5cm of the enemy I want them to take double damage!

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Alan's bang on the reason why we get the extra small bits of information in the data sheets.

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Leave them off reference sheets if you need to save room, but they should be on the datafax for the character purposes.

Otherwise I thought this was going to be about barrage template positioning, intermingling etc etc

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Ha Ha - so did I. Epic-the game where a millimetre really counts!

Something I used to find quite irritating at first; but I'm used to it now..

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You'd have to re-write the paragraph about applying hits to include a note about that if you removed all the small arms. Suppression too.

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Dave

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I was one of those who liked the simplified structure of the previous version, but acknowledge that there are those that didn't. I agree that Epic is not about the "minutiae".

I also agree with others that they can be left off the reference sheet, but should be included in the datafexes.

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This.

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Neal

Er... I'm not sure what the "Poll" above is even asking, as there's no actual question.  So, I can't answer.

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Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?