Dear Lord, TRC, thats an insane list!  It masquerades as a Yme-Loc list but with Void Spinners

_________________
http://www.net-armageddon.org - The official NetEA (Epic Armageddon) site and resource.
http://kealios.blogspot.com/ - My blog of my sci-fi adventures

The refused flank, or indeed hammer and anvil, works quite well with the Eldar in my opinion, since they don't have the numbers to deploy across the board, so they are better off hitting the opposing army in one place, and then making use of their consolidation bonus, in order to make hit and run attacks.

Blast markers really do cause Eldar formations problems in my experience too, and I haven't made enough use of marshal orders in the past to get rid of them, much to my cost, since I'm still used to using tactics from the Space Marine era, which are unsuited to the modern game.

_________________

The choice of list does depend to some extent on circumstances - TRC's list is extreme and would pose problems for many races, but would be anahilated by any 'air-assault' list, but it does raise the debate on how to use Eldar SHT. Using single SHt is the 'norm' for 3000 point games because it keeps the activation count high, but pairs or even threes can be very destructive. One principle is to have more than one of a given type both for redundancy and also to significantly incease the effect.

Scorpions (along with FirePrisms) are the hit-&-run specialists, only out-classed by Revenant titans. All of these need to keep out of harms way, so usually lurk on a flank where they can harass weaker formations and prepare for assaults. Doubled up they provide Revenant level fire power for 150 points less and another activation.

Storm Serpents provide long range assults. On a double they can support an assault 65 cms away, and from a march, can deliver an infantry assault 105 cms or a jet bike assault at a staggering 125 cms. As such they are automatic 1st strike assault targets, so you must have at least two and preferably a wraithgate as well; which obviously dictates the army strategy being used. Don't forget they are also good AT vehicles.

Void Spinners are superb for 'preparing' an assault virtually anywhere on the battlefield and generally end up guarding the Blitz. These are also the only exception to the 'use multiples' principle'.

Cobras are probably the hardest to use well, but rightly feared by knowledgable enemy who ignore them at their peril!. Try to move them late in the turn and put them in some centrally placed wood or built up area (to reduce the effect of enemy shooting). From here they can single or double to assault titans and other formations. Move two or even three around and watch the opponent run away.

However, all SHTs are vulnerable to air assault and TK weapons, so need to be kept back until needed, and preferably supported by screening formations (a few small changes in TRC's list would achieve this)

_________________
"Play up and play the game"

Vitai lampada
Sir Hemry Newbolt

Scouts are IMHO a must in the Eldar list for two reasons.
1) They restrict the enemy advances forcing the enemy to deal with them (marshall each formation when it is shot up to increase their resilience.
2) They increase the number of activations allowing the eldar to delay deploying their major formations.

Rangers are one of the means to fine-tune the Eldar list (along with Exarchs, and Aspect transport). By far the best scouts in the game with their 5+ armour and sniper rifle - try sustaining on terminators and watch your opponents face drop.

War Walkers need to be placed as far forwards as possible, but hiding behind terrain as much as possible. Marshalled in turn one to keep them in play, they will stop RA targets 'in their tracks'. On a sustain, they can put out a large volume of very effective AT fire, half of which ignores RA.

Air and Space Power
Generally the Eldar 'rule the skies' with the best kit around, but really only to inhibit enemy air-power and to shoot ground targets, so need to be used in support of the ground strategy.
Eldar spaceships have good firepower, but are to some extent let down by the weakness and cost of the Vampire. Note you have to pay 300 points for the larger spaceship if you want to planetfall, but I have not yet managed to make this particular strategy work well.

Vampires provide reasonable firepower, and can deliver a strong assault (Aspects) but are horribly vulnerable to AA, especially A/c.

Phoenix Bombers a bit expensive at 400 points, but they provide a multi-role capability and as such are probably the best of their class in the game. The can act as fighters and intercept enemy A/c, while they also provide good ground attack possibilities with good armour.

Night Wings are the best fighters in the game. With Lance they have a good chance of killing Thunderhawks and their numbers mean that most A/c rightly fear them. Again the 'multiples principle' works well here; two or even three formations cna exert a real impact on the game.

_________________
"Play up and play the game"

Vitai lampada
Sir Hemry Newbolt

Very good points Ginger, but I do have a couple of issues to debate:

1. Skimmers and terrain.  Many of the buildings which I use for gaming are the old buildings which came with the Space Marine boxed set, and there is no way skimmers could enter these sorts of buildings, or other intact buildings, as far as I can see, so are you thinking more along the lines of ruins?

It is also rather risky for skimmers to enter this kind of terrain, and I tend to only consider doing so with transports, such as Wave Serpents, in order to pick up Eldar Aspect Warriors as part of the formation's consolidation move following a successful assault, as I think expensive Eldar super heavy tanks are better off not being risked in this manner.

2. Rangers and War Walkers.  Every time I have used these they have been shot to pieces before I get the chance to do anything with them, so I'm really struggling to get my tactics right when I use these.  I agree with the sentiment of putting them forward, but whenever I have tried this, they just get destroyed, so while I understand the advantages, I just cannot get this tactic to work for me.  Do you have any suggestions?

_________________

1) Your are correct in your presumtion - I was referring to placing the Cobra in ruins or woods to gain partial cover bonus. They cannot land on intact buildings. However as they are WE, the risk of entering / leaving such terrain is mitigated by their size (DC3), because they can afford to lose a point of damage to the DT test.

IMHO it is much more risky to move Wave Serpents onto DT because there is a 1:3 chance of them failing the DT test with disasterous consequences.

2) Scout formations are used to slow down the enemy, forcing him to waste activations in destroying them, and exposing these formations to potential counter-attacks. While I always set them on OW, I rarely use this preferring to wait until they have suffered some damage when I try to Marshall them. This is done to continue delaying the enemy.

With this strategy in mind, the trick with all scouts is to hide them behind terrain to reduce the risk of being shot at while denying a reasonable area from the enemy and so screening your army from attack. Two scouting formations deployed one behind the other in defensive terrain can effectively hold up an entire flank for several turns allowing you to counter enemy threats as they develop.

War Walkers deployed in this fashion can severely embarass enemy armoured formations and will rip up transports and their contents very effectively if on OW.

_________________
"Play up and play the game"

Vitai lampada
Sir Hemry Newbolt

You make a fair point about the DT, which I had overlooked, but would it still be possible to suffer a critical hit from failing a DT test?  I know that this is unlikely, even if it is possible within the rules (which I'm not sure about, hence why I'm asking), but that would be a pretty unfortunate way to lose an Eldar super heavy tank.

That said, it's better to risk that than to stay completely in the open to get shot to pieces, assuming the choice is between the two, although other options would be preferable to either.



I agree, but, in my experience, it is often unavoidable, since infantry, more often than not need to go into buildings and woods when assaulting, and I like them to be picked up by Wave Serpents, so that they can make a big consolidation move, and maximise hit and run Eldar tactics, so I feel it's a risk with taking more often than not.



I tried positioning Rangers in a wood to employ this tactic once, my Space Marine opponent won the initiative, sent in some Land Speeders with a double move, shot half the squad dead, and the remainder spent the rest of the game withdrawing.

I think I was too ambitious with how far forward I positioned them, but I think it's better to use intervening terrain to act as a line of sight blocker, so that Rangers and War Walkers can set up fire lanes for sniping opposing formations which try to outflank you, which fits in to that which you are saying about using overwatch.



I tried using my War Walkers more aggressively, and I didn't work, so I definitely agree that this, more defensive, approach sounds better.

_________________

Yes, a hit from the DT test will potentially become critial However the chances of this happenning are fairly remote (requiring a 1 followed by a 6) or a 1/36 chance.

_________________
"Play up and play the game"

Vitai lampada
Sir Hemry Newbolt

Much depends on the infantry being used. If you are using CC Aspects, obviously they work best getting into contact, so need to get into the terrain. But FF infantry (and especially Guardians) do not need to get into the terrain, so they can be picked up by the WS as part of their consolidation move.

_________________
"Play up and play the game"

Vitai lampada
Sir Hemry Newbolt

Don't forget that part of the point is to drag an enemy formation forward to the point where you can do something to it. Thus you need to plan for where the enemy formation will end up - so try deploying the rangers around 30-40 cm from the table edge rather than on the half-way line. (obviously the first unit placed may end up out of position)

_________________
"Play up and play the game"

Vitai lampada
Sir Hemry Newbolt

I agree with the point about the Guardians, but I haven't used those in Wave Serpents yet, much to my cost, so I have yet to to this in practice.

Mixed Aspect formations are more tricky though, since while it is possible to leave the FF units out of the terrain, it is not possible, as you say, to do the same with the assault units, yet I think mixed formations work well for Eldar Aspect Warriors, so that's just one of those little conundrums that I think we (as Eldar players) just have to put up with   .

_________________

NOW we're getting some valuable discussion

Using 4-unit Ranger Formations, I think, is begging for them to be shot up and broken.  100 measly points is so simple to fit in, and since they can get cover saves, can be a bit more resilient than the Walkers.  I'm leaning towards going with 8-unit strong Rangers for 200 points in most of my lists now, I think.

_________________
http://www.net-armageddon.org - The official NetEA (Epic Armageddon) site and resource.
http://kealios.blogspot.com/ - My blog of my sci-fi adventures

I don't think you've quite appreciated the wonderfulness that can be out-activating your opponent yet... If you have a few more activations than them you have complete free reign to do as you like in the last few acivations, keeping your important units safe till that time then moving them out close to the enemy to shoot, possibly followed up by a sustain or an assault next turn, ect and there's nothing the enemy can do but sit there.

IMO 4-6 is the optimum size for Rangers IMO. There are advantages to a large formation of rangers too, just most of the time a higher number of activations may prove tactically better.

The point of splitting the rangers into two 4x unit formations is that you get two activations Vs something that can really hurt Marines and other heavily armoured infantry. Both have their uses.

The 4x unit ranger formation is fragile, so needs to be hidden from shooting for exactly the reasons stated. However if correctly placed, they will slow down the enemy in one area, allowing you to concentrate the bulk of your forces elsewhere. Don't forget that 'tournament' tables ought to have 12 pieces of terrain covering 25% - 35% of the table, meaning the enemy will usually have to double to shoot at them. Being on OW means they get a -1 for being shot at, and 5+ armour makes it quite likely they will survive most initial shooting unless from some significant enemy formation (which must expose itself to do so - just what you are planning for).

The 8x unit formation has reasonable offensive capabilities. Try putting it in a Vampire and doing a shooting ground attack as opposed to the usual assault. This becomes really devastating if you can make this crossfire as well. Really usefull as a form of 'mobile' reserve. However in adopting this approach you are cutting down the available activations which impacts your strategic options.

_________________
"Play up and play the game"

Vitai lampada
Sir Hemry Newbolt

I have to agree about the issue of activations.  In my games, I don't think that I have always had sufficient activations, so I think taking some smaller formations which are designed to irritate and delay opposing formations is probably the best route with Rangers.

_________________