Login |  Register |  FAQ
   
Post new topic This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 40 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

World Eaters1.1 vs Imperial Guard

 Post subject: World Eaters1.1 vs Imperial Guard
PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 1:59 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 8:41 pm
Posts: 1480
Location: Gothenburg,Sweden
And the inevitable question... Where're them chaos flyers from?  :O

_________________
It would be nice to get lightspeed,
so far we can only reach slight speed.
- Erik M
092b85658e746a91d343e53509d357744e56f641


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: World Eaters1.1 vs Imperial Guard
PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 9:56 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2008 3:22 pm
Posts: 5682
Location: Australia
Quote: (Erik M @ Oct. 09 2009, 22:59 )

And the inevitable question... Where're them chaos flyers from?  :O

I guess you are referring to the bigger ones?

All the ships are from Full Thrust - I think the NAC fleet. There are alot smarter designs now, however these are just stand-ins for now.

I will either build the Forgeworld ones I have, or I may look for alternatives.. still deciding on what look I am going for.

I have always felt that aircraft in the game were always modelled far too big, especially the stuff from Forgeworld.

_________________
Frogbear is responsible for...
Previous World Eaters
Previous Emperor's Children
Previous Death Guard
Previous Imperial Fists
Previous Chaos Squats


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: World Eaters1.1 vs Imperial Guard
PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 11:49 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 4:45 pm
Posts: 8139
Location: London
EM4 plastic fighters any help?

http://www.em4miniatures.com/acatalog/S ... ction.html

I see some cadidates.

_________________
If using E-Bay use this link to support Tac Com!
'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913
"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: World Eaters1.1 vs Imperial Guard
PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2009 6:54 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2008 3:22 pm
Posts: 5682
Location: Australia
Quote: (The_Real_Chris @ Oct. 10 2009, 08:49 )

EM4 plastic fighters any help?

http://www.em4miniatures.com/acatalog/S ... ction.html

I see some cadidates.

Funny you should mention these. I have something else on it's way in the same line of these. I will wait till it arrives before advising what they are   :;):

_________________
Frogbear is responsible for...
Previous World Eaters
Previous Emperor's Children
Previous Death Guard
Previous Imperial Fists
Previous Chaos Squats


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: World Eaters1.1 vs Imperial Guard
PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2009 10:44 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 8:41 pm
Posts: 1480
Location: Gothenburg,Sweden
I've fancied Kraytonian (DRM) for Chaos.

_________________
It would be nice to get lightspeed,
so far we can only reach slight speed.
- Erik M
092b85658e746a91d343e53509d357744e56f641


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: World Eaters1.1 vs Imperial Guard
PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2009 1:30 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2008 3:22 pm
Posts: 5682
Location: Australia
Quote: (Erik M @ Oct. 10 2009, 19:44 )

I've fancied Kraytonian (DRM) for Chaos.

It is an option no doubt   :agree:




_________________
Frogbear is responsible for...
Previous World Eaters
Previous Emperor's Children
Previous Death Guard
Previous Imperial Fists
Previous Chaos Squats


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: World Eaters1.1 vs Imperial Guard
PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 11:18 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Fri Oct 02, 2009 1:25 pm
Posts: 26
Location: Australia
Quote: (frogbear @ Oct. 08 2009, 14:04 )

- Armoured Co go on Overwatch (probably the decision that lost the IG player the game from this point on…)

in my defense... The tank company was on a hill and had a clear LOV across the board in anticipated drop attack. You just happened to drop conviently behind a building thus wasting my overwatch effort.

_________________
Has anyone seen my baseball?


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: World Eaters1.1 vs Imperial Guard
PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 11:27 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Fri Oct 02, 2009 1:25 pm
Posts: 26
Location: Australia
Looking back I did need more air defense.  Should have droppd a super heavy for some t/bolts and split the hydras between the 3 companies.  Basically I think I was spread out too much over the table and could not react to what the worldeaters were bringing.  I had control of the right side of the board with no world eaters that could really do anything..problem is the objectives, My BTS were all on the left side and that flank collapsed under teleport and dreadclaws and dont forget two waves of bikes. It was my first game with IG for a long time so next time I have taken more consideration of my list and look forward to the rematch.

_________________
Has anyone seen my baseball?


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: World Eaters1.1 vs Imperial Guard
PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 9:31 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2008 3:22 pm
Posts: 5682
Location: Australia
Quote: (LeanonRuss @ Oct. 12 2009, 20:27 )

so next time I have taken more consideration of my list and look forward to the rematch.

Let's get it on!!    :agree:

_________________
Frogbear is responsible for...
Previous World Eaters
Previous Emperor's Children
Previous Death Guard
Previous Imperial Fists
Previous Chaos Squats


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: World Eaters1.1 vs Imperial Guard
PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 4:09 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2005 1:24 am
Posts: 4499
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Quote: 

One cannot expect to spend ~150 points and be protected. Either spend a good part of the points on some protection, or go without. There is no half-way point when the opponent uses air attacks - and I am finding that air superiority is becoming a large part of our games.

Well to be fair Frogbear, when you play blind (a tournament or the first time you play someone etc) you don't expect to face 600-800 points of aircraft. It's not something you can dealwith when playing a balanced tourney force. In all the games I've played no one has yet used the amount of aircraft you have. No one.

Quote: 

This is the World Eaters weakness, so it should be exploited. For air defence, fighters are defence as well as ground units; this should not be forgotten.

I don't think it has been forgotten it's just most people have to find a balance of ground forces and air, and coming up against 3-4 air activations in an army is unusual. Truthfully, from an objective point of view, if it were a weakness in the WE list, you shouldn't be able to take 3-5 air activations (3k game) and still have ground forces able to win as often as your WEs do. I think with the amount of air cover you take that it's not an exploitable situation.

Quote: 

Concentrate on smaller units if you have to. Another weakness of the World Eaters are their few activations.

I think this is a bit of a red herring mate. You outnumbered the guard in activations so I wouldn't say 14 activations in a 4k list is terribly low (going by this batrep). Plus going back to my point about air, you have 4 activations in air assets. If you converted just a couple of air formations to ground formations you are seriously not outnumbered so I don't think you can argue this point in that respect.

Quote: 


The player started to find that sustained actions against units really hurt the World Eaters.

To be honest though sustained actions against any formation starts to hurt LOL. World Eaters have the benefit of 4+ armour which most opposition infantry (except e.g SMs and other chaos) don't.

Anyway this is just some perspective from reading your batreps. It's not an attack on you or the list, simply an objective view.  :yay:


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: World Eaters1.1 vs Imperial Guard
PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 8:38 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2008 3:22 pm
Posts: 5682
Location: Australia
Quote: (Dobbsy @ Oct. 13 2009, 13:09 )

Well to be fair Frogbear, when you play blind (a tournament or the first time you play someone etc) you don't expect to face 600-800 points of aircraft. It's not something you can dealwith when playing a balanced tourney force. In all the games I've played no one has yet used the amount of aircraft you have. No one.

Balanced force or just something that does not play to your established group? TRC handled them fine from scratch with a well thought out and balanced list. I question whether it is a balance issue or an issue from lack of playing..

Does one prepare for a Warlord or Banelord titan? How is this any different? You either do or you don't.

Quote: 

I don't think it has been forgotten it's just most people have to find a balance of ground forces and air, and coming up against 3-4 air activations in an army is unusual.

Once again, I believe this is due to a lack of opponents - maybe it's just me, however a balanced force is protecting yourself as well as striving for an objective. One will fall apart without the other. Are you stating that aircraft are too powerful? The pricing is in line with all other lists.

Quote: 

Truthfully, from an objective point of view, if it were a weakness in the WE list, you shouldn't be able to take 3-5 air activations (3k game) and still have ground forces able to win as often as your WEs do. I think with the amount of air cover you take that it's not an exploitable situation.


We are still in playtests and trying to balance the list, however it is not a force that Marines, Chaos, Orks or Imp Guard could not emulate to a certain extent. I took cheaper units to 'break' the list. Much like a popcorn force, they are small units and certain things in that army could've really hurt the plans of those bikes. As it was, the berzerkers were almost at a point of being useless. The Imp Guard were out of position, that's all. It is easy to state 'blah' however it may have been alot different if the Imp Guard were not so spread out and defending one objective with over 1000 points when their Blitz, BTS and T&H were being threatened on the other side of the table. Sometimes you just have to give up a turn and March in order to give yourself a 2nd and/or 3rd turn punch.  

Quote: 

I think this is a bit of a red herring mate. You outnumbered the guard in activations so I wouldn't say 14 activations in a 4k list is terribly low (going by this batrep). Plus going back to my point about air, you have 4 activations in air assets. If you converted just a couple of air formations to ground formations you are seriously not outnumbered so I don't think you can argue this point in that respect.


I outnumbered with very light units which could have easily been broken or destroyed;  refer to the above. Remember, the Vultures kept all their rockets as just one example...


Quote: 

To be honest though sustained actions against any formation starts to hurt LOL. World Eaters have the benefit of 4+ armour which most opposition infantry (except e.g SMs and other chaos) don't.


Even yourself found out how valuable shooting was. Likewise you also made the mistake of removing overwatch. With a BTS on the Blitz, what else could one expect of Terminators and teleporting? It is 2 points towards a quick win. I really cannot defend a list over mistakes made by an opponent.


Quote: 

Anyway this is just some perspective from reading your batreps. It's not an attack on you or the list, simply an objective view.  :yay:

That's fine. Not too far different I guess for me placing up my observations of what would have beaten the list. All good in hindsight I guess   :shake:

_________________
Frogbear is responsible for...
Previous World Eaters
Previous Emperor's Children
Previous Death Guard
Previous Imperial Fists
Previous Chaos Squats


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: World Eaters1.1 vs Imperial Guard
PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 11:13 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 4:45 pm
Posts: 8139
Location: London
Quote: (Dobbsy @ Oct. 13 2009, 04:09 )

Quote: 

One cannot expect to spend ~150 points and be protected. Either spend a good part of the points on some protection, or go without. There is no half-way point when the opponent uses air attacks - and I am finding that air superiority is becoming a large part of our games.

Well to be fair Frogbear, when you play blind (a tournament or the first time you play someone etc) you don't expect to face 600-800 points of aircraft. It's not something you can dealwith when playing a balanced tourney force. In all the games I've played no one has yet used the amount of aircraft you have. No one.

I think air isn't that popular with you chaps then.

In UK tournies that amount of aerospace force is in no way uncommon. For marines its 3 thunderhawks and a pair of thunderbolts, for Orks its 1-2 landas and a massive FB squadron and a small 3 plane squadron. Eldar fairly regularly appear with 2 lots of nightwings and /or nightwings and vampires. Chaos currently doesn't bother with oblits being better but the lost and damned love their ignore cover planes.

Hence all the flak people (especially Imperial guard who very rarely have more than 300 points of aircraft) load up with. My last Ork army had 8 flakwagons and 3 fighter bombers and that wasn't nearly enough.

_________________
If using E-Bay use this link to support Tac Com!
'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913
"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: World Eaters1.1 vs Imperial Guard
PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:39 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2009 8:02 am
Posts: 256
Location: Melbourne Australia
Quote: (The_Real_Chris @ Oct. 13 2009, 11:13 )

In UK tournies that amount of aerospace force is in no way uncommon. For marines its 3 thunderhawks and a pair of thunderbolts, for Orks its 1-2 landas and a massive FB squadron and a small 3 plane squadron. Eldar fairly regularly appear with 2 lots of nightwings and /or nightwings and vampires. Chaos currently doesn't bother with oblits being better but the lost and damned love their ignore cover planes.

Hence all the flak people (especially Imperial guard who very rarely have more than 300 points of aircraft) load up with. My last Ork army had 8 flakwagons and 3 fighter bombers and that wasn't nearly enough.

I would find that extremely boring to play and play against.

:evil:


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: World Eaters1.1 vs Imperial Guard
PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:51 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2005 1:24 am
Posts: 4499
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Quote: 

I question whether it is a balance issue or an issue from lack of playing..

Well having played for several years since E:A came out it's not the latter. I'm speaking about home games and tournament play.


Quote: 

Does one prepare for a Warlord or Banelord titan? How is this any different? You either do or you don't.

The difference is you can guess you might bump into some form of WE across different armies and but, as I mention, 1/3 air power is not usual in all the games I've played. You can't build to completely counter it in a blind/tourney force - something's got to give.

Quote: 

Once again, I believe this is due to a lack of opponents

Nope.

Quote: 

Quote:

To be honest though sustained actions against any formation starts to hurt LOL. World Eaters have the benefit of 4+ armour which most opposition infantry (except e.g SMs and other chaos) don't.
.

Even yourself found out how valuable shooting was. Likewise you also made the mistake of removing overwatch. With a BTS on the Blitz, what else could one expect of Terminators and teleporting? It is 2 points towards a quick win. I really cannot defend a list over mistakes made by an opponent.

?? Sorry you lost me. My point was that Marines soak fire better than most infantry, not that they are invincible to shooting. Defend a list over opponent's mistakes? Sorry lost me again.

Quote: 

I think air isn't that popular with you chaps then.

In UK tournies that amount of aerospace force is in no way uncommon. For marines its 3 thunderhawks and a pair of thunderbolts, for Orks its 1-2 landas and a massive FB squadron and a small 3 plane squadron. Eldar fairly regularly appear with 2 lots of nightwings and /or nightwings and vampires. Chaos currently doesn't bother with oblits being better but the lost and damned love their ignore cover planes.

Ahhhh, see that's my point TRC. Eldar take 2 nightwings/vampires. That isn't 4 fighter squadrons. I've seen 2 fighter squadrons at most plus the odd TH and vampire, which aren't usually AA options being bombers.

Quote: 

Hence all the flak people (especially Imperial guard who very rarely have more than 300 points of aircraft) load up with. My last Ork army had 8 flakwagons and 3 fighter bombers and that wasn't nearly enough.

Hehe and it sounds like you UK chaps are playing Aeronautica Imperialis masquerading as Epic...  :laugh:





Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: World Eaters1.1 vs Imperial Guard
PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 5:33 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 4:45 pm
Posts: 8139
Location: London
So now you know why in the UK fire prisms are still AA!

Quote: (Dobbsy @ Oct. 13 2009, 13:51 )

The difference is you can guess you might bump into some form of WE across different armies and but, as I mention, 1/3 air power is not usual in all the games I've played. You can't build to completely counter it in a blind/tourney force - something's got to give.

Yes you can't. You are either going to play the air game (and meta game since it seems air is more prevalent amongst say marines the higher the rankings you are) or disrupt it. I typically go to disrupt it, that is ensure the odd bm is scattered, odd formation on overwatch etc, all to lower the certainty of activation and air assaults winning and so on.

However I always tool up for the day I actually get to kill a warlord or other big beast :)

Quote: 

Ahhhh, see that's my point TRC. Eldar take 2 nightwings/vampires. That isn't 4 fighter squadrons. I've seen 2 fighter squadrons at most plus the odd TH and vampire, which aren't usually AA options being bombers.


You don't line up thunderhawks on the ground to blow away escaping hellblades? :)

2 nightwing squadrons is 600 points. L&D armies can be very keen with their tzencht fighters. But I take air to include bombers as quite often fighters are expected to serve that way. Before the +1 to hit my thunderbolts were used as bombers, Orks regularly take large squadrons not for intercept duties but for unstoppable bombing missions.

In a way you should throw in defensive AA cover for your air assets as well that can stop opposing fighters messing with you.

Quote: 

Hehe and it sounds like you UK chaps are playing Aeronautica Imperialis masquerading as Epic...  :laugh:


Curse our competitive natures!

Quote: (Blish @ Oct. 13 2009, 12:39 )

I would find that extremely boring to play and play against. :evil:

Its largely an exercise in preparation and timing. So I'm awful at it :)




_________________
If using E-Bay use this link to support Tac Com!
'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913
"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 40 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 24 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  


Powered by phpBB ® Forum Software © phpBB Group
CoDFaction Style by Daniel St. Jules of Gamexe.net