Login |  Register |  FAQ
   
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 34 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

EPICOMP 2009 RULES

 Post subject: EPICOMP 2009 RULES
PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 7:52 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 8:45 pm
Posts: 11149
Location: Canton, CT, USA
Quote: (Dave @ 28 Aug. 2009, 14:49 )

Quote: (vanvlak @ 28 Aug. 2009, 14:04 )

Quote: (Dave @ 28 Aug. 2009, 15:44 )

For the battleforce entries, I perferred the 2007 rules (8 units, WE count as 2). Could we have a poll/discussion of going back to that?

A quick discussion which should be ended by the 31st August - discuss away, on this thread :)  - since people were happy enough with last year's similar battleforce description I did not change it, but may be convinced otherwise.

Does anyone else have strong feelings about this? I suggested it only because 8 units is a pretty good minimum for most EA formations and I think we'd see more entries at this number than at 16.

16 stands, or 4 war engines, seems like a lot to me, too. A Leman Russ company is only 10 Lemans. A super heavy company is 3 Shadowswords.




_________________
"I don't believe in destiny or the guiding hand of fate." N. Peart


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: EPICOMP 2009 RULES
PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 8:11 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 11, 2003 7:27 pm
Posts: 5602
Location: Bristol
It's meant to be a battleforce though, which to me says mini-army and 8 units is smaller scale. Would many people not have 16? I guess so long as it's a minimum and there isn't a maximum then I don't really mind.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: EPICOMP 2009 RULES
PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 8:54 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 09, 2006 11:26 am
Posts: 424
Location: Germany
Quote: (Dave @ 28 Aug. 2009, 15:44 )

For the battleforce entries, I perferred the 2007 rules (8 units, WE count as 2).

I second that.

_________________
"Your limbs are mighty. Let them smite the foes of our Emperor."


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: EPICOMP 2009 RULES
PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 10:56 pm 
Swarm Tyrant
Swarm Tyrant
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 6:22 pm
Posts: 9350
Location: Singapore
Quote: (vanvlak @ 28 Aug. 2009, 19:20 )

As regards the first bit: strictly speaking, the work on the model should be made by the competitor; but this can be defined better:
1) we always assume (and I believe this is the case) that all entries are painted by the person who entered them. Painting is the basis of all categories except for the conversion one, so that's simple enough.
2) the conversion competition is a tough nut. If someone sculpts a model entirely from scratch, would that be a conversion? Not quite, but we usually accept it as such. If someone were to cast that sculpt, would that count? This is Apocolocyntosis' question. I suppose yes. If someone cast a model off a sculpt, but then gave it to someone else, and this someone else painted and entered it, would it count? Strictly speaking, no, because the conversion (which is what is judged in the conversion competition) is not her or his own work. But it's not easy to determine what is what. The case indicated here is a further extrapolation of this case - part of a conversion fabricated by a third party! Good grief! Is there a lawyer in the house?  :tongue:
The conversion competition includes all models entered in any category, nominally; the ones which are not conversions but standard commercial models are obviously not considered for this category. As for all the remaining variety (conversions, part swaps, sculpts, part sculpts, scratchbuilds, prototypes etc.) - that is up to the discretion of the judges. The are usually three of the senior (i.e. older, or senile, and experienced, or downright dull, and regular, i.e. nerd-like) members of Epicomp - the pool of judges for Epicomp usually includes Cybershadow, Warmaster Nice, Nealhunt and myself; that means excluding our own models from this prize, something I personally consider painful, even though I have no hope of winning this. In other words - the decision is left to these wise, old men. But if you wish for a more direct answer - if the sculpted part does not constitute the entire conversion work done to the model, then it would probably not matter at all and would be eligible. Thus if someone sculpted a new Warlord Titan head and that was the only change to the model, this should not be eligible for the conversion prize unless it were your own work. If the head AND the weapons and details to the legs were all changed, and the head were made by someone else, that would be ok.
Clear as mud, I suppose... :sigh:

Just to jump in here about this.... and none of this is official as vanvlak has the final say (thanks again, v, for agreeing to put yourself through this).

I would say that the conversion must be judged as the changes made by the person who submitted the model (who should also be the person who painted it), and that the changes/model should be none-production standard. If any changes fall outside this boundry, they should not be included in the consideration for a conversion. This would also avoid the (somewhat unlikely) situation of Jes Goodwin, Bob Nasmith, or even (more likely) Warmaster Nice entering a model that they have designed and is for sale as a standard design, and claiming that it is a 'conversion' because they designed it. Theoretically, this is true, but I would say that a conversion must include changes that take a models design away from the mass-produced form, and should be done by the person submitting it. This does mean that Warmaster Nice can take one of his designs and convert it, but only those later, post-production changes are included.

Does this make sense?

_________________
https://www.cybershadow.ninja - A brief look into my twisted world, including wargames and beyond.
https://www.net-armageddon.org - The official NetEA (Epic Armageddon) site and resource.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: EPICOMP 2009 RULES
PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 4:59 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Tue Sep 30, 2003 9:15 pm
Posts: 7948
Location: Denmark
Certainly :) Of course we're beginning to enter a grey zone but the stuff I've been involved with for EW (with Otterman doing the actual 3d modelling) is clearly a commercial project and should not be regarded as a conversion in any way, unless som personal modifications is made. This is also why I raised the issue with the whole rapid prototyping business going on: It is entirely possible to make professional standard stuff this way. I think we need to figure out some sort of guidelines as to when the standard "creative modelling/scratch build" becomes "too professional". With the way this area has developed over the past year it is bound to become more common in coming years. Otterman, E&C, Jonluke, Nik and Zombo has been producing some amazig stuff lately and it really blows any traditionally sculpted stuff out of the water. It does complicate things, but my spider seneses tell me that at some point it may be nessecary to distinguish between 3d modelling and conventional conversion/scratchbuilds. They are different tools and methods to produce models, perhaps so different that it is difficult to compare them next to one another. Is it more impressive to have a green stuff sculpt of Abaddon or a 3d modelled version in 6mm? I honestly don't know.
One could certainly argue that 3d modelling is just a different variant to milliput and greenstuff that requires skill to master. But on the other hand the virtual model is much easier to perfect than a physical model where shaky hands and the natural limitations of modelling materials result in some degree of luck in order to pull off a good result.

I know it is late and close to the beginning of the comp, but with regards to future EpiComps I think we probably need to discuss where to position this new tool and also make som very clear definitions as to when it should be classified as professional work or personal works sent off to rapid prototyping. Personally i see it as a new tool on par with greenstuff, but at the same time I'd hate to see everyone shift to 3d modelling instead of the simple beauty of conversions based on "good old hands on craftmaship". There should definitely be room for both methods, but they are just so fundamentally different that I find it very difficult to judge the two against each other.


(PS: Posting while drunk, so I apologize typos, weird grammar or general nonsense :p :;): )

_________________
Sofa General

Nobody expects the Inquisition!!!
http://theepiclounge.wordpress.com/


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: EPICOMP 2009 RULES
PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 6:27 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2008 3:05 pm
Posts: 801
Location: Orangevale, CA, U.S.
3D modelling really deserves it's own category.  It has it's own skill set & medium which is completely outside what you would find in traditional modelling.

Conversions based off of 3D models should definitely be viable for the overall conversion comp because it really is no different than what you would find with a conversion to a SG/FW manufactured piece.  It's still essentially manufactured bit+ creativity.

_________________
WAAARGH!!
The Lost & the Dipped


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: EPICOMP 2009 RULES
PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 8:44 am 
Purestrain
Purestrain
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2008 9:04 pm
Posts: 6005
Location: UK
Quote: (Warmaster Nice @ 29 Aug. 2009, 04:59 )

Is it more impressive to have a green stuff sculpt of Abaddon or a 3d modelled version in 6mm? I honestly don't know.

Personally i would say in Greenstuff, as i imagine the number of people who could make a passable abbaddon in z-brush in 4-5 hours greatly exceeds the numbers who could make a good abbaddon at 6mm in GS.

But then when it comes to vehicles it sort of reverses again, and id say the time taken to make a super accurate CAD vehicle for 3d printing is vastly more than that taken to run something passable up in some 1mm styrene.

_________________
AFK with real life, still checking PMs


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: EPICOMP 2009 RULES
PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 3:07 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 31, 2003 7:52 am
Posts: 10348
Location: Malta
ATTENTION

One of my usual cock-ups:
The deadline indicated was the 15th of November. Early on I had intended to change this to the 30th of November, but had entirely omitted to do so - and I only realised a few minutes ago when I read replies in another thread.

I have now adjusted the dates as follows:


Deadline for submission
1200 UT 30th November 2009

Voting starts
1200 UT 10th December 2009*

Voting ends and winner announced  
1200 UT 31st December 2009*
*subject to revision.

Apologies for the distress this might have cause - my bad, and I'm going to be punished for it: I myself had not submitted any models yet (still thinking I had previously changed the deadline) - as a consequence, and as it might appear I am taking personal advantage of this, I will now not enter them.

Once again, sorry for the dire mess.

_________________
Back from oblivion (again)?


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: EPICOMP 2009 RULES
PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 3:14 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2008 3:05 pm
Posts: 801
Location: Orangevale, CA, U.S.
Quote: (vanvlak @ Nov. 15 2009, 06:07 )

I myself had not submitted any models yet (still thinking I had previously changed the deadline) - as a consequence, and as it might appear I am taking personal advantage of this, I will now not enter them.

Once again, sorry for the dire mess.

Bah!  Enter your models anyway. :grin:

I think most of us would rather see your entries in the comp than have you exclude yourself.

_________________
WAAARGH!!
The Lost & the Dipped


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: EPICOMP 2009 RULES
PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 3:37 pm 
Hybrid
Hybrid
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2007 11:25 pm
Posts: 9539
Location: Worcester, MA
Agreed, just enter them Van.

_________________
Dave

Blog

NetEA Tournament Pack Website

Squats 2019-10-17


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: EPICOMP 2009 RULES
PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 3:40 pm 
Purestrain
Purestrain
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2008 9:04 pm
Posts: 6005
Location: UK
Thirded, enter them :agree:

_________________
AFK with real life, still checking PMs


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: EPICOMP 2009 RULES
PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 4:38 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 8:45 pm
Posts: 11149
Location: Canton, CT, USA
Agreed, enter them, especially since it seems a lot of people will benefit from the new deadline.

_________________
"I don't believe in destiny or the guiding hand of fate." N. Peart


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: EPICOMP 2009 RULES
PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 4:45 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 11, 2003 7:27 pm
Posts: 5602
Location: Bristol
Fifthted - enter them regardless.

Think you may have mentioned the 30th at some point no? That was the date I've been thinking it was.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: EPICOMP 2009 RULES
PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 4:54 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 05, 2006 2:57 am
Posts: 20887
Location: Harrogate, Yorkshire
Mine aren't ready yet either.

_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 34 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 42 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  


Powered by phpBB ® Forum Software © phpBB Group
CoDFaction Style by Daniel St. Jules of Gamexe.net