Nope, I'm perfectly happy to go with interpretations of the rules that are not in my favour. In this case I would expect the assault to fail whether I was on the engaging or recieving side.

On many occasions I've happily lost games by deciding to ignore silly rules. That's the very opposite of rules lawyers, and the very opposite of "win at all costs".

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http://www.troublemakergames.co.uk/
Epic: Hive Development Thread

If people insist by playing broken abusable counter charge rules with no logic to the letter instead of easily fixing why should another rule be changed just because they find that rule inconvinient?

That's two faced one standard for one and another for other style. Either fix all broken rules or play the rules as written.

If people want logical rules which makes sense and aren't broken then feel free to do so but that needs to be applied over everything and not just to rules where it is convinient for them and forget doing that to rules where it would be inconvinient for them. Anything else is just not fair way to do so. Rule commitees would be just altering rules for their benefits to help them win games more easily.

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www.tneva.net

Actually, I like to give favourable treatment to my opponent, and *don't* expect the same in return, but am pleased when I receive it.

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"EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer

Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?

So the rulebook can be ignored, yet we must also follow every rule to the letter? Do you not see the contradiction in your argument?

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http://www.troublemakergames.co.uk/
Epic: Hive Development Thread

That wasn't rule now was it? That was just concept. Fancy naive theory Jervis had which doesn't stand the truth of reality. Jervis can dream of having spirit of rule game but epic was quickly turned into rule lawyers game. Which incidently all games where unrestricted premeasuring is allowed turns into.

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www.tneva.net

Could you please list some more of these broken rules so we know what needs fixing?

One of the tenets of EPIC is the "five minute warm-up" where such possible issues are to be discussed, in an friendly and co-operative manner.

How is it "two faced" to admit that some rules don't always make sense or aren't fun and that players should be attempting to maximize fun?

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"EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer

Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?

The difference is that most people don't think the counter-charge rules are broken. Simple as that.

If you feel they are, please post a candid explanation of why, and they can be debated.

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http://www.troublemakergames.co.uk/
Epic: Hive Development Thread

The 5 minute rule isn't used to change the rules. You have one set of rules and play by them. Any other method creates just confusion. When you go to play you should be able to know the rules beforehand and not find out that you are forced to play with different set of rules.

Two faced it is when you don't change one rule(like counter charge) and then try to change other rule(like this one). Both are against spirit of the rules so if spirit of the rule is guide line then both needs to be fixed. Anything other is just twisting the rules to boost your own chances of winning.

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www.tneva.net

What is your definition of "rules lawyer", tneva82?

Maybe you did play against a "win at any cost" player, but those can be found in any game, what makes it so much worse for you with EPIC?  

In my experiences with EPIC, both in friendly and in tournament play, people have been more than willing to listen, and implemement, alternate interpretations of rules with oddities or "nonsensical" things come up.

You definitely had a bad experience at RopeCon, probably feel like you wasted your money and such, but why do you believe that that experience encompasses all of EPIC play?

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"EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer

Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?

Again, I'm sorry if your local gaming group is rules-lawyerish and obsessed with winning at all costs, but that's an issue for you to take up with them.

My local gaming group is the absolute opposite, much more obsessed with fun at all costs. Who wins and loses is insignificant compared to that.


One of the rules of epic is that you should change the rules if they don't make sense!

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http://www.troublemakergames.co.uk/
Epic: Hive Development Thread

But you did play by the rules, I believe... and yet you still seem dissatisfied.

Or did someone not play by the rules in your game?

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"EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer

Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?

Yes and what would the 5 minute rule period change here? I'm not going to change rules and I expect nobody tries to change rules before game either. I want to know what rules I'm playing with before the game. The 5 minute period is to be used to determine how to treat terrain, any model oddities there might be(like my capitolis imperialis as baneblade) and rules concerning to your army if opponent isn't aware of them. Nothing else. DEFINETLY not changing rules just like that.

I might not like the rule but I'm not stupid enough to insist them to be changed at the start of tournament game. Everybody has right to expect rules to be followed during the game and not have them changed before hand which could alter game balance notably.

And it's not like the rule in question is even broken per se. For this to happen BOTH players need to give their approval. You can't have defenders moving outside 15cm range without both attacker AND defender giving approval since neither side can do it themselves. Defenders can't make attackers to put their units so that this would be possible and attacker can't force defender to counter charge away.

It will only happen if BOTH sides wants to just roll assault result without casualties. In any other case there will be as much combat as attacker chooses.

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www.tneva.net

So, what's the issue then?

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"EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer

Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?

That kind of situation has happened to me once too. Even if the rules are not crystal clear, assault did not happen if there is nothing in range -> engage failed, everything continues as normal. Simple as that and at the first place it is the attacker himself who has made him in that awful situation after all.

This really is not so grim game mates.

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Rats Keep Running...

Dark Eldar Dracon

You tell me. Or someone other here who claims the rules aren't crystal clear in this regard. Defenders move outside 15cm range->you throw assault resolution normally.

Clear rules and it's not even unfair to either side because it will happen only if both players want. It's not like the broken counter charge move where defenders have no saying over how it goes as attacker is the one doing all the decisions.

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www.tneva.net