Oh yes, far more annoying

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On buildings, our group in the UK tournaments tend to use a template to define the edge of woods or built-up areas. When it is a built-up area, the buildings themselves block LoS, while the template provides cover (representing smaller buildings and structures in the area). This gets around some of the issues being described by slightly amending the LoS conditions.

I agree that the rules on hit allocation can be a bit quirky. Essentially what Neal is describing is an extension of the 'long ranged' unit that can see, and hence allocate, shooting hits to more enemy units. What is being described is the equivalent of assault 'clipping'. However the occasions where this happens are very rare in my experience, so do we need to try to legislate for them?

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Sir Hemry Newbolt

Neal, I specifically remember a thread years ago where this was discussed at great length (no pun intended).  You mentioned that ranges can -in a sense- stretch due to allocation rules.

So, if you had a formation A, shooting at formation B, like in the first example, the "Who Can Shoot Rule" allows all units in 'A' to fire at formation 'B'.
(assuming all units in 'A' have a 45cm range and all units in 'A' are 45cm from the closest unit 'B1')
A
A
A
A---------45cm---------B1 B2 B3 B4
A
A
A

Now at the time I could have sworn that you mentioned these ranges 'stretch' to include B2, B3, and B4.  I thought it was rubbish but the thread covered this stretching quite extensively.  Can you please explain what is stretching if it isn't the allocation?

A visual would help too.

Dave, I have to explain nothing; even if I was wrong about the rule I was more a victim of the rule than a benefactor.

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It's like this:  S = Skorcha, 15cm range  G = Gunwagon, 45cm range, E = enemy

S
S
S--15cm--E1-5cm-E2-5cm-E3-5cm- E4 E5 E6
G-------------------45cm-----------------
S
S
S

You roll all the attacks, and, even if the Gunwagon misses, the Skorcha hits, which are now in the "allocation pool", can be "stretched" out beyond "E1", since E2 through E6 were in range of the Gunwagon.  

That's the "stretching"

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Mosc: Nope, in that case all hits must be applied to B1. The only situation where "stretching" takes place is when you have mixed ranged shooting units in the formation:


A
X---------45cm-------
A            
A---15cm--B1 B2 B3 B4
A            
A
A

In this scenario all of A are only in range of B1, but because X is in range of the whole formation all the hits are allocated across the whole formation, so the range of A "stretches".


EDIT: Jumped by Chroma  

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Epic: Hive Development Thread

Well this isonly true if youuse "speed dice rolling". Strict by the rule you roll and allocate unit for unit.

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Apparently I was the victim of yet another 15 page thread rule discussion.

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This and the cover while on overwatch?

Let's just blame Steve...

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You do get the cover modifier on overwatch.  That one I remember.  I don't like it, but I definitely remember that one well enough.

Blaming Steve sounds the best approach.

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Mosc: IIRC the overwatch thing was that you claimed the cover on a mounted unit, which count as vehicles for terrain purposes so don't gain the overwatch cover benefit.

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Epic: Hive Development Thread

No, talk to Neal.  He and I went I think three pages before I finally gave up and wrote it off as a game mechanic.  Units on overwatch get cover (but this is for another thread).

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It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

I guess this is a matter of taste. IMHO the way this allows the extreme range of artillery to blur (or flex) slightly is much better than the usual millimeter perfect range mechanics in virtually every other rule system.

With respect to 'extended' hit allocation, think back. When was the last time that you guys experienced a gross example? The point is you need to have a mixed unit formation in position to fire on the flank of an extended line where the other conditions also apply. Sure, you can get mild versions where occasionally a few hits get spread out, but very, very rarely to the extent being complained about here.

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Sir Hemry Newbolt

It's always true, even under a strict rulebook procedure.  Rolling to hit and allocating are separate steps.  You do not allocate by unit as you go.

1.9.3 Shooting Procedure
...
II – Roll to hit.
III – Allocate hits, make saving throws and remove
casualties.
...

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Neal

OW:  Infantry on OW get both the cover to-hit mod and the OW cover save.  Non-infantry gain no cover-related benefits.

From 1.8.4:
Open Ground: Infantry receive a 5+ cover save if they are on Overwatch unless the terrain they are in
gives them a better save. This represents the fact that stationary infantry are very hard to see. Note that
the save will be lost after the infantry shoot and the Overwatch marker is removed.

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Neal