in my defense i had 20+ units in buildings and around tanks one f**kin unit was nailed . oh my all the formation runs brokin. give me a break. no matter how you set a formation up some one is going to be on the end. so you can always get clipped. i see the necrons alll bunched up next to their monoliths ou my dont cross that magic line you might get too close and have 2 unit shoot back. yes its get tiring. BUT epic is still one of the best games. i lose alot but i love the game.good night.

You have a counter move of 5 cm.  There's NO WAY you can be clipped so bad as to only be able to fight back with 1 or 2 units if your fm was as big and as clustered as you claim it to be. Also, a lot of this has to do with the roll off.  Sometimes it goes badly when engagements are fairly close on modifiers and that's just something you have to suck up.  Sometimes you win, other times you lose.

I think you can only countercharge directly towards the enemy.

Actually you have to counter charge towards the NEAREST enemy. Now if that's a supporting formation that's 6cm away and the clipper is 15cm away you have to move towards the support even though you can't bring that into the assault.

What happens if you've got a 10cm counter-charge? And he's only 6cm away?

What happens if on a charge, getting to the unit's target means entering the ZoC of another formation?

Lots of complexity.

Anyways, how about the possibility of "If a unit is not in base contact with an enemy, it can choose to counter-charge 5cm away from the enemy. If any formation does so, it receives 1BM + 1BM per unit that did so."

That way, clipping assaults need to either get within 10cm (which makes for a more significant contest), or risk only doing a few BM's. Essentially a hasty withdrawal rather than a withdrawal in good order.

Not sure how this'd work in practice with regards the uber-formations. Would it make Uge Warbands etc overpowered?

Morgan Vening

in my defense i had 20+ units in buildings and around tanks one f**kin unit was nailed . oh my all the formation runs brokin.

a) You could drag that formation into the assault

b) Covered in the FAQ's,you would ignore the other units ZofC to get into BtoB.

This is one of the main problems with discussions like this. Whether you like clipping or not, it's taken into account as a downside of large formations when costing them. If you somehow get rid of clipping you have to change the costs of just about every formation in the game.

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http://www.troublemakergames.co.uk/
Epic: Hive Development Thread

Factors like outnumbering, inspiring BMs, scout screens, OW the location of supporting units and the fact attacks are symaltanious are all massive factors that can work against you.

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author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

Your prefered option gives no opportunity to pull in the supporting unit which you can do if you make it to base to base. It also removes the reward of dirupting the defending unit through manouvre, brute force becomes more important.

I had one such assault at the NEAT II tourney where my Dark Eldar Coterie swept around a tree line an came at this Chaos formation from the side to 'clip' (I know, I am in close-combat, but I wasn't about to use them with a FF6+!).  The bikes are strung out and cannot get everyone into range even if they tried, but even if they charge, they must charge in toward the closest formation....

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author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

...Of course moving toward the closest formation (Reavers) is going to be suicide because some the supporting fire just becomes part of the assault (see this pic).  Now what is the Chaos player to do?

If he stays put, he is most certainly going to lose the formation.
If he charges, he brings the Reavers into the mix.

Either way he is screwed.  But talking about the realism, what would the Chaos do?  Charge blindly 10cm across open ground toward the Coterie while all the Reavers use them for target practice?  Or would they engage the closest enemy that was shooting at them?  

IMO the latter seems to be the most realistic choice and exactly what the rule calls for.

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author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

I think the issue is, that even though they're approaching the "nearest" enemy, they can't actually do anything to them unless they base them and "drag" them into the combat... their firefight weapons are, for some reason, rendered useless here, and that bothers people.

It *is* an oddity of the rules.

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"EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer

Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?