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Care to comment?

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 02, 2003 3:38 am 
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Oh PooH !!! :D  I have been playing Epic since SM1 in '90.  Have all versions of the game since, thru E40K.  I collect all the Armies including Traitors, Squats and now F/W Tau & Kroot.  And have 95% of all the G/W and F/W Epic models, ever produced. I have played hundreds of games of Epic. So I may be pessimistic about E-A, but I have been around the Epic block more than once, and don't just make my comments "off the cuff".  I'll probably buy most if not all of the new E-A models and rules.  But until I see it in my hands, I'll stand-by ... :;):

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 02, 2003 9:59 am 
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Quote (primarch @ 02 2003 Nov.,10:45)
As a patholoigist, I can tell when a body starts to stink..... :;):

But we are a long way from Rigour setting in here mate!

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 Post subject: Care to comment?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 02, 2003 1:29 pm 
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I realize that the comments here, and mine in paticular, are very pessimistic and gloomy.  But, to be logical about it, when you look at the launch and support of the last version, epic 40k, which was marketed and supported and could be found in the stores, and it still didnt attract the numbers that GW apparently wanted (as evidenced by their dropping all major support for the game).  So, how is Epic A supposed to attract new players when the only way to get it is through the Web or Mail-order?  As I said before, all the current fans will buy the game and minatures ( I will).  The only way to really get new players on board is to put the game out there for them to see it, feel it, touch it.  And according to GW's current marketing scheme, that is not going to happen.  I mean, do they really think that someone with little or no experience with previous Epic versions is going to look at the web site or catalogue and say, 'hmm, that looks cool, I'm going to drop $100 on that system right now'.   Unrealistic.
    Maybe my comments are dark and gloomy.  I am happy to see a new version, and will buy it, but I dont see it lasting very long.


just my 2cents,

iblisdrax

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 02, 2003 2:08 pm 
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Quote (Primarch @ 02 2003 Nov.,1:45)
...its not in WD....


I repeat again it is in WD! Here's the whole of CS' Q&A with Jervis. Look at the first answer, 8 pages+ of White Dwarf over February, March and April....


Quote (CyberShadow @ 01 2003 Nov.,13:23)
I have heard a rumour that the new mag will be monthly, and ?a subscription will be $60, about ?40. This makes it (surprise) ??4 each issue. The same as WD after the price increase. ?I also asked Jervis directly about the gap in the schedule, and ?other things, on the Epic Vault boards. He replied to my post (my questions in his post):

Quote

+++ I worry that the Epic mag is cancelled, Epic will not make a huge splash (if any) in WD and the Fanatic mag will not be out until three months after the release. +++

There will be at least eight pages given over to Epic in UK White Dwarf for the months of February, March and April, and then Fanatic magazine will be out in May (and will have material for Epic in every issue). Support is likely to be much more patchy elsewhere, but in the UK and on the web it will be good right from the start.

+++ I worry that downloaded rules will not be counted as sales and so the stats will suffer. +++

This really doesn't worry me at all. We're not after high sales on Epic, and to be honest being able to say "XXXXX thousand ?rulebooks have been downloaded" tends to impress the sales teams as much as sales do, as they can see that the system is ?popular.

While on this subject, GW Francais is hugely pleased with the success of the downloadable BFG rulebook they have on their website. Thousands of copies have been downloaded, and there has been a *big* upswing in BFG miniature sales as a result. It's been a real success, and made some of the other GW sales businesses sit up and take notice of what GW Francais has done.

+++ I worry that Fanatic mag will not get the Epic readership orvolume of printable articles, and so the Epic section will atrophy (I would cut back in this situation if I was editor!). +++

I don't think this will be an issue. I can produce enough material on my own to fill the Epic quota in Fanatic magazine at first, and we'll soon get other people who can write articles too. If we can do it for BFG, Warmaster, Mordheim etc we can do it for Epic too.

+++ Also, does this mean that Epic will be fully supported (by Fanatic) continuously, all armies will see release that this will not depend on sales? +++

Yes and no. The important thing isn't so much the level of sales as the *forecasted* level of sales. In the past all of the problems we've had with specialist games sales have ben because we forecatsed too high a level of sales, leaving us with excess inventory sitting in ourt warehouse. We've learnt from these lessons and with Epic we've forecaste at a realistic level of sales ?(round about Warmaster levels, basically). Now, if Epic proves leess ?popular than Warmaster and we end up with lots of stock sitting in our warehouse then we could be in trouble, but this is *very* unlikely. It certainly hasn't happened with any of the other specialist games, and I can't see why it should happen to Epic.

+++ Now, if you could email my girlfriend to let her know that I am not 'buying toys', but keeping the economy alive and supporting a worthwhile cause, I would very much appreciate it! ?+++

LOL - only if you can convince my wife that as a 'famous game designer' the money I spend on toy soldiers is actually in the aid of vital work-related research...

Best regards,

Jervis Johnson, ?Head Fanatic


I feel a little better, but not 100% convinved.


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 Post subject: Care to comment?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 02, 2003 2:16 pm 
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But again, would you spend a chunk of change on a game system that you have no experience with, have seen very little of, and cannot buy in a store?  The WD coverage is great, but I can't see that much impact in terms of new players.  Maybe I am wrong.  I sincerely hope that I am, and that Epic A explodes in terms of sales from the start.  

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 02, 2003 3:47 pm 
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Hi!

Jackhammer, its not in WD NOW, BEFORE the game's release. There is NO pre-release hype. To wait to induce such hype during and after release isn't that big of a boost. All "big" GW games get advertisement in WD months before they are released and you hear the talk everywhere you go on the net. Where is such talk regarding epic besides the usual epic dedicated sites? I roam all the sites the even remotely talk about epic and with 4 months to go there isn't much of a "buzz" to speak of and that which you do hear are by the same people who are already into epic (like those of us on this forum of the Epic A one).

That is what I mean by no support in WD. It needs it NOW, not later.

Iblisdrax, as yourself, I will buy Epic A and any other new models that suit me. But its not you or I or other fans on this list that will make it a success. Its the games appeal to the mass market that will guarantee this. A appeal which is severely restricted due to lack of exposure. REAL exposure, not a few token ads after the games release and no availability beyond GW stores or mail order.

I've been on both sides of this issue. As a gamer and as a retailer and there is NO WAY this game will take off without independent retailer support, especially in the US. Not everyone lives next to a GW store or will buy something online without seeing it first hand.

Epic fans will ALWAYS be "pumped-up" with new epic stuff. Thats why we are fans! But we are NOT the true target audience.

I just dont see how GW's current strategies for epic will produce the waves of new epic gamers the system desperately needs to be economically feasible.

Gloomy Pete? Sure, but until the facts show otherwise I remain firmly pessimistic on its chances.

Primarch

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 Post subject: Care to comment?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 02, 2003 3:57 pm 
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Quote (primarch @ 02 2003 Nov.,14:47)
Epic fans will ALWAYS be "pumped-up" with new epic stuff. Thats why we are fans! But we are NOT the true target audience.

Actually, we probably are the target WHEN WE SHOULDN'T be.  

You know, I don't know why I am sayiing this, but I almost want to believe that tactical games are for kids and strategy games are for adults.  Plus kids don't go shopping on the net like adults do, they browse through stores.  They'll see 40k stuff everywhere and it looks cool.  They'll here about EpicA and while it might sound cool, I can't see them buying all they'll need to play online.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 02, 2003 4:07 pm 
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Hi!


Actually, we probably are the target WHEN WE SHOULDN'T be.


Good point. If the few epic fans were enough, epic 40k would not have failed market-wise. While fans will be real happy with current developments, I dont see a whole lot of money coming from fans with established collections. Newbies is were the money is at, efforts should be channeled to them.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 02, 2003 5:32 pm 
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I'll be standing-by ... for the next change or E-A release, whichever comes first ... :D

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 02, 2003 7:39 pm 
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There does seem to be effort to produce new units not seen before to tempt vets to buy new stuff. Valkyries/Ork Super Gun/Ork Supa Stompa/Marine Cargo Lander/Etc. I'll probably be get some of this new stuff when the games comes out and I've got a fair bit of EPic stuff already.

Jackhammer


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 02, 2003 10:29 pm 
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Hi!

No question Jackhammer, myself and most of us will buy those "newer" units in a heartbeat. Most of them look gorgeous!

However, the buying capacity of veteran gamers is limited since we have the basic stuff already, unlike newbies that need to buy everything.

My gloomy comments aside, I HOPE AND PRAY, the game does well enough to see armies like the Tau and Necron arrive in epic scale. IF epic A can do this for me, I'll be EXTREMELY happy.  :)

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 02, 2003 11:48 pm 
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I think I remember reading that Necrons will never get a Epic release, just because they are an emergant, raiding force. Not really suited to Epic scale battles, a bit like the Dark ELdar. So you might want to concentrate all your hope on a mainstream Tau release :)


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 03, 2003 1:57 am 
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Hi!

Really?! Darn that stinks. I was hoping Necrons because Tau are already available via FW (albeit at ridiculously high prices).

Oh well, so much for hope.... :{

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 03, 2003 2:01 am 
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Hopefully we'll see Epic Necrons, way in the future.  I have heard that rumor before ...  I'm betting Jervis does not even know, for sure ...  :{

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 03, 2003 2:30 am 
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Jervis posted within the last month or so confirming that Necrons and Tau would get army lists and models.

There was no mention of the Necrons being only a raiding force. He also confirmed Dark Eldar will _not_ be getting an Epic army.

He also confirmed the release order for Epic armies is: Eldar, Tyranids, Chaos, Necrons, Tau.

He said he hoped to get Necron + Tau trial lists up within the next few months.

Edit: You can find Jervis's post in this thread: http://forums.specialist-games.com/epic40k...._ID=504

This is what he posted

Neal is right, it's go to be at least a couple of years before we get round to the Necrons. However we do plan to do them as the first 'new' race, before the Tau. I do plan to try and get playtest armies up for both these races asap; playtesting the Necrons will not be easy, as you'll have to use stand-ins, but the the FW resins will make it easier to test the Tau list.


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