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Empty 'oneshot' weapon and BM
Flogus
 Post subject: Empty 'oneshot' weapon and BM
PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 12:53 pm 
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About empty 'oneshot' weapons :

Can they shoot even if they are empty ? And so, can they put a blast marker on their target ?
In order to put the first BM, it only need being in range, in sight (exception with Indirect Fire), and not being suppressed).

So, can emply Deathstrike launchers can put a BM over 30cm (within 30, they can use their heavy bolters) ?

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nealhunt
 Post subject: Empty 'oneshot' weapon and BM
PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 1:37 pm 
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Quote: (Flogus @ 09 Jul. 2009, 12:53 )

About empty 'oneshot' weapons :

Can they shoot even if they are empty ? And so, can they put a blast marker on their target ?
In order to put the first BM, it only need being in range, in sight (exception with Indirect Fire), and not being suppressed).

So, can emply Deathstrike launchers can put a BM over 30cm (within 30, they can use their heavy bolters) ?

No.  Placing a BM on a target requires the ability to fire.

As noted, the two requirements for being suppressed are range and line of sight.  The ability to fire is not required, so an empty one-shot can be counted for purposes of determining which units are suppressed.

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Flogus
 Post subject: Empty 'oneshot' weapon and BM
PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 1:53 pm 
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Quote: (nealhunt @ 09 Jul. 2009, 14:37 )

No.  Placing a BM on a target requires the ability to fire.

Ok.
IMO, this should be add to the next FAQ, for 'Single Shot' and 'Reload'.

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Jeridian
 Post subject: Empty 'oneshot' weapon and BM
PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 12:46 pm 
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I know rules are the most important in these questions, but I can't help but laugh at the fluff abuse.

This empty Deathstrike launcher puts BM on an enemy unit for coming under fire how exactly? By the driver making 'whooshing noises'?
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Chroma
 Post subject: Empty 'oneshot' weapon and BM
PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 1:16 pm 
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Quote: (Jeridian @ 10 Jul. 2009, 12:46 )

This empty Deathstrike launcher puts BM on an enemy unit for coming under fire how exactly? By the driver making 'whooshing noises'?

Er... he fires his heavy bolter... he can only put a BM on an enemy formation within 30cm of him, because the Launcher can't actually "shoot" with the Missile more than once; and actually being able to fire is a prerequisite for placing that Blast marker.




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Flogus
 Post subject: Empty 'oneshot' weapon and BM
PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 1:22 pm 
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Quote: (Jeridian @ 10 Jul. 2009, 13:46 )

I know rules are the most important in these questions, but I can't help but laugh at the fluff abuse.

This empty Deathstrike launcher puts BM on an enemy unit for coming under fire how exactly? By the driver making 'whooshing noises'?

Being 'spotted' by a radar or a laser aiming can be ennoying enough to justify a BM.
And there is no need of a big missile to do that, only the aiming device. Of course, that could happen only if the target can detect the aiming device.

But anyway, the BM-attack with an empty weapon (Single shot or Reload) is not possible.




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nealhunt
 Post subject: Empty 'oneshot' weapon and BM
PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 1:45 pm 
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Quote: (Jeridian @ 10 Jul. 2009, 12:46 )

This empty Deathstrike launcher puts BM on an enemy unit for coming under fire how exactly? By the driver making 'whooshing noises'?

AAAARGH!!!!

An empty one shot weapon CANNOT PLACE BLAST MARKERS.  

CANNOT
CANNOT
CANNOT

Placing a BM for the target coming under fire requires the unit to fire at the target.  In order to do that it must have the ability to fire.  Empty one-shots do not have the ability to fire.  Slow-fire on the off turn does not have the ability.  Small Arms weapons do not have the ability.

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Jeridian
 Post subject: Empty 'oneshot' weapon and BM
PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 5:12 pm 
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Oh, come on guys, I didn't realise I had to be so pedantic and nit-picky.

Er... he fires his heavy bolter... he can only put a BM on an enemy formation within 30cm of him, because the Launcher can't actually "shoot" with the Missile more than once; and actually being able to fire is a prerequisite for placing that Blast marker.


Er, yeah, that was a given- a given stated in the very first post.

The OP was asking for circumstances beyond 30cm, i.e. where only the Deathstrike Missile has range.

Being 'spotted' by a radar or a laser aiming can be ennoying enough to justify a BM.
And there is no need of a big missile to do that, only the aiming device. Of course, that could happen only if the target can detect the aiming device.


There is a huge difference between coming under fire and the potential of coming under fire- you don't get Blast Markers for the enemy staring at you, you get Blast Markers when real bullets and bombs are hitting and exploding all around you.

An empty one shot weapon CANNOT PLACE BLAST MARKERS.

Yeah I know, that's why I didn't just repeat the rules reasoning for it- does it really need to be said in every post?
I was going one further, since that questions been answered, and delving into the fluff reasoning for why an empty Deathstrike rack would strike fear into the enemy, especially if this empty rack is parked a mile away out of sight.

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nealhunt
 Post subject: Empty 'oneshot' weapon and BM
PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 6:21 pm 
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Quote: (Jeridian @ 10 Jul. 2009, 17:12 )

I was going one further, since that questions been answered, and delving into the fluff reasoning for why an empty Deathstrike rack would strike fear into the enemy, especially if this empty rack is parked a mile away out of sight.

My bad.  I misunderstood the target of the sarcasm in your post.

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