Aaagh. And again people like me would be forced to buy separate rulebooks thus diminishing value you get out of starter box.

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www.tneva.net

I don't agree with the view that starter boxes should be discounted bundles of models and rules for existing gamers. Rather they should be sets that start people off and get them hooked. Complete rulesbooks are often not the way to do that

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If using E-Bay use this link to support Tac Com!
'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913
"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x

Why would new gamers be interested in starter set which isn't even complete requiring additional purchaces? Point of starter set is to get at affordable price everything you need to start to play with. Rulebook is part of that.

Not everybody is interested in reading bunch of PDF's. Not everybody has even PDF reading capability conviniently during games! For example we would have to take major delays every time we need to check on rules. Walk 2 rooms across. Wake the computers screen from screensaver. Type in password. Find the rule(which I find to be slower on PDF than with real book). Read it(and more annoying to read from PDF than from book as well).

Compare that to grabbing book, flipping to correct page and reading it from there.

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www.tneva.net

Just to chip in on the PDF front, as someone new to looking at the rules:
 
Ive been collecting epic for a bit over a year now and until yesterday id never really got motivated to play the game (largely because I know no one else who plays) but also because to play yesterday (vs myself ) I ended up with my laptop on the board with 5 PDFs open. What’s worse is these PDFs are not even bookmarked, so navigation is appalling  – the EA Compendium PDF, for example, doesn’t even have a running header, meaning you have to scroll all the way back to the index to navigate, in a 130page document this is not acceptable. Surely someone who makes the PDFs that are linked on tac com has a copy of adobe acrobat?  . The section numbering system is good, but when new to the rules still requires cross referencing with the index)  

Printed rules are essential in my view, even if the complete rulebook is not needed the complete *rules* are (including all advanced rules etc) – eg look at the current 40k and fantasy warhammer starter sets, with massively condensed rulebook sizes but all the rules. That said, the rules being available online free is what finally got me to start epic.

I would also never buy a starter set/bundle if it was not discounted.

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AFK with real life, still checking PMs

Actually I doubt many starter sets include the full rules for a game. Most have supplements released or availible seperately, others have cut down rule books (doesn't GW do that?) with the full ones availible seperately. Having the full rules for free on a cd would be a bonus.

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If using E-Bay use this link to support Tac Com!
'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913
"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x

As far as im aware the condensed rule books in the current GW starter boxes are 100% complete, including advanced rules and special abilities etc.  Just without the hobby and background section and fewer photographs?

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AFK with real life, still checking PMs

Correct. Everything you need to play are in them. Smaller size font and pictures+hobby and background sections removed but rulewise they are all there.

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www.tneva.net

But no army lists and similar? I've seen the 40k starter rule book, I think its a mistake as its a small font and a sod to read.

(If anything it makes a poor set of rules look even worse.)

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If using E-Bay use this link to support Tac Com!
'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913
"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x

40k army lists are surprise surprise in their codexes. Neccessary stats to play with models in the box though.

And even the small rulebook is easier to read than PDF if you don't have to PDF-book readers which cost arm and teeth(and the PDF file should be indexed etc which epic PDF's aren't).

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www.tneva.net

The back of the book contains a long list of model profiles, but no special rules, id assume this is the same as the main book, since GW stopped putting list in their core game rules around 40k 4th ed and WFB 6th ed I think?

A friend and I brought the 40k 5th ed starter set last Easter to mess about with, with both of us not having played since 3rd ed. Personally I found the small book to be eminently “flickableâ€Â

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AFK with real life, still checking PMs

QFT, this, this, this

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AFK with real life, still checking PMs

Epic 40k did it well.

- Rulebook (core rules)
- Armies book (rules for all armies)
- Battles book (rules for scenarios, and hobby guides)


I think you could get away well with just a Core Rulebook* and an Armies Book**.


* Which would have the core rules, scenarios and a hobby guide, and would never be updated for the life of the edition.

** Which would be updated once every two years or so to introduce new armies to the game. Models for those armies would then be released in stages over the following two years, so that by the time the next rulebook update rolls around all the miniatures have been released.

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

Printed rules are essential in my view

By not concentrating on "physical" rules, the game can adapt to changes quicker and be more dynamic. Kind of like constant patches for video games.

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter