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Farming Out Epic?
Captsin
 Post subject: Farming Out Epic?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 3:56 pm 
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Hi Guys,

  One argument that stuck with me in my 6mm vs 10-15mm scale post is that much of the Epic range is outdated (hence not attractive to model lovers) or not made! Now with Forgeworld closing shop, and GW not supporting (as usually) the range, things aren't looking so good IMO.

  What are the chances of GW farming out Epic miniature production and marketing to another company? They did a similar thing to Fantasy Flight for board games. Now I know that Fantasy Flight aren't direct miniature competitors, but still. Wouldn't it make sense to let someone else take a stab at making Epic work? GW doesn't have to invest anything, just sit back and take a cut if it works.

Doesn't it make economic sense? Wouldn't having a company that makes all the armies and better infantry (not resin!) help the game and therefore money coming into the company?

6mm scale figures aren't a direct competitor to 28mm, so what would be the problem with this idea if Games Workshop doesn't want to support Epic?
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Dwarf Supreme
 Post subject: Farming Out Epic?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 3:59 pm 
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The odds are practically, if not absolutely, 0%.

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Chroma
 Post subject: Farming Out Epic?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 4:01 pm 
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This proposal was actually made, at least in some form, by Evil and Chaos, and rejected by GW.  I'm sure E&C will be around to give any details.

If you want "better" 6mm stuff, I'd recommend just accepting "proxies" and looking at the myriad models available from other 6mm manufacturers.

As to the FFG products, they are specifically banned from making miniatures to support those board games.




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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Farming Out Epic?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 4:03 pm 
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I tried to buy a licence to produce Epic externally, with Jervis Johson's tacit backing, and GW Licencing wouldn't even negotiate terms, they're literally not allowed to talk about licencing out miniature games.


So ummm, unlikely I'd say.  :cool:

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Captsin
 Post subject: Farming Out Epic?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 4:04 pm 
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The odds are practically, if not absolutely, 0%.




Why though? 6mm doesn't compete with 28mm models.

One argument people had that Fantasy Flight wouldn't redo a traditional Space Hulk (a board game) is because Space Hulk had 28mm models in it. GW wouldn't want that. And that's understanable.

But if a company came to GW and said "look, we'll make tyranids, tau, whatever, and market, and give you a percentage of the profits" wouldn't GW take that deal?

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Farming Out Epic?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 4:06 pm 
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Quote: (Captsin @ 25 Jun. 2009, 16:04 )

But if a company came to GW and said "look, we'll make tyranids, tau, whatever, and market, and give you a percentage of the profits" wouldn't GW take that deal?

They've been offered that deal, and they didn't say 'no'... they said 'we're not even allowed to consider that possibility'.

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Captsin
 Post subject: Farming Out Epic?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 4:07 pm 
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I tried to buy a licence to produce Epic externally, with Jervis Johson's tacit backing, and GW Licencing wouldn't even negotiate terms, they're literally not allowed to talk about licencing out miniature games


But if it's a corporation, why the hard stance? Aren't corporations greedy and immoral (see documentary "The Corporation" btw) and do anything for money?

Is it in their Charter or something? I don't get it. We have a good product. We will neglect the product. We will not allow anyone else to help us make money on this good product. It makes no sense!  :evil:

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netepic
 Post subject: Farming Out Epic?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 4:09 pm 
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The problem is that EPIC is tied to the 40k universe, any new development could potentially interfere with their IP controls.

They need to have full creative control, including the ability to retcon existing races and thus alter their miniature range to fit the new vision.




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Dwarf Supreme
 Post subject: Farming Out Epic?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 4:10 pm 
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Quote: (Captsin @ 25 Jun. 2009, 11:07 )

It makes no sense!  :evil:

C'mon, we're talking about GW. Since when do they do things that make sense?  :p

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Chroma
 Post subject: Farming Out Epic?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 4:16 pm 
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Quote: (Captsin @ 25 Jun. 2009, 16:07 )

But if it's a corporation, why the hard stance? Aren't corporations greedy and immoral (see documentary "The Corporation" btw) and do anything for money?

That answers your question: in their estimation, the cost of legal hassles, particularly in dealing with their intellectual property, and such stemming from such an arrangement would cost more than it would bring in, so, it's not worth even thinking about.  Simple.




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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Farming Out Epic?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 4:16 pm 
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They want to keep control of the visual aspect of the IP (pretty much the most important aspect of their IP as they are a miniatures producer, before the background and the game rules).

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Captsin
 Post subject: Farming Out Epic?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 4:22 pm 
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C'mon, we're talking about GW. Since when do they do things that make sense?


Ya I know. I'm just pissed off about these latest developments.

   It's like so many things that are good in sci-fi turn out to be SUCH a let down. Those new Star wars movies for example, and then their HORRIBLE miniature game. I really was hoping to paint up some 28mm model jedi when the rumours were floating around what it could possibly be. And when I saw the garbage that were those minis i was disgusted.

  Epic is a great game, i know I'm preaching to the choir here. I just want to have cool looking armies to play with and opponents to play against. Is that too much to ask? When Forgeworld was making minis I had such high hopes for Epics future!

  Just wanted to say, Evil and Chaos, I've seen some of your work posted and it rocks. It's a shame guys with your passion and talent are marginalized by GW.

  Oh well, hope they don't screw up the new Space Hulk or I'll blow my brains out!  :vD

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Chroma
 Post subject: Farming Out Epic?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 4:25 pm 
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Quote: (Captsin @ 25 Jun. 2009, 16:22 )

  Epic is a great game, i know I'm preaching to the choir here. I just want to have cool looking armies to play with and opponents to play against. Is that too much to ask? When Forgeworld was making minis I had such high hopes for Epics future!

Well, where in Toronto are you, Captsin?

There are people who still, occasionally, play EPIC at the GW Bunker in Oakville and I've got several friends who play in Hamilton.

And there are a lot of "cool" alternate 6mm model makers out there!

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Captsin
 Post subject: Farming Out Epic?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 4:30 pm 
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the cost of legal hassles, particularly in dealing with their intellectual property, and such stemming from such an arrangement would cost more than it would bring in,


What hassles? Like when the contract is up and Games Workshop decides to take over miniature production? Couldn't that be structured into the contract agreement?

They want to keep control of the visual aspect of the IP

Then why not have a control committee that approves all molds/miniatures before they go to production?

 Or why not have GW staff create the molds and "rent" them to model company makers. Or model making companies that create their own molds sign a contract that those mold are GW property and are only rented for the duration of the contract.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Farming Out Epic?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 4:34 pm 
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Then why not ...

Or why not...


GW are unfortunately not amenable to persuasion on this issue.

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