Login |  Register |  FAQ
   
Post new topic Reply to topic  Page 4 of 7
  [ 93 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next

Black Templars V3.5 proposed changes
The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: Black Templars V3.5 proposed changes
PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 4:45 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 4:45 pm
Posts: 8139
Location: London
Really no idea on drop pods. Its a bit all in one basket as I rely more on bm's everywhere and dropped troops supporting my air assaults. Has anyone tried two big formations dropped and nothing else?

_________________
If using E-Bay use this link to support Tac Com!
'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913
"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Black Templars V3.5 proposed changes
PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 4:54 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 05, 2006 2:57 am
Posts: 20887
Location: Harrogate, Yorkshire
The 'scouts in drop pods' exploit was only a problem because they were ultra-cheap and you could therefore drop a lot of them too cheaply it wasn't their combat power but the multiple Deathwind attacks that were the problem (the Chaos Black Legion has a similar issue with Forlorn Hope formations?).

If they're allowed in 40k, then leave them in.

_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Black Templars V3.5 proposed changes
PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 5:53 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 05, 2006 2:57 am
Posts: 20887
Location: Harrogate, Yorkshire
I assume our load out is identical: Terminators+Crusaders with 2 THT


Just consider for a minute what you're getting there Hena.

Not only are you getting 4 Terminator units on the ground for the same 200pts as a Thunderhawk Gunship would cost you, you're also getting the following for no extra points:


- Semi-immunity to critical hits (A critically-hit THT formation will still be able to finish the prospective engagement with the second transporter as the formation doesn't even break).

- DC 4 instead of DC2.

- Double the Firefight power.

- Dropping two RA 4+ superb Firefight vehicles along with the infantry.



The reduction in armour to 5+RA doesn't compensate for the large power boost over a regular Thunderhawk Gunship afforded by the above factors.




_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Black Templars V3.5 proposed changes
PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 6:07 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 05, 2006 2:57 am
Posts: 20887
Location: Harrogate, Yorkshire
Quote: (Hena @ 11 Jun. 2009, 17:58 )

As I suggested we could and probably should go back FF5+. That will make FF a bit better still but not much (1.33 hits vs 1 hit).
The armour drop counters the first point quite effectively. As now you you need ~4hits to drop one instead of 8.
Then there is the craft size. THT is ~4 times larger than Thunderhawk. I'm looking SG Thawk here and don't care about the size of FW Thunderhawk as SG is official model for epic. Then you need the space twice. That means that target area must be large and THTs will take any formations support fire on them from huge area.

None of whih comes near to compensating for the power boost a pair of Thunderhawk Transporters give over a regular Thunderhawk.

I've played against 200pt THT pairs dozens of times and Pulsar's played with them regularly for a year or so, and we're telling you they're too cheap.

Heck look at EpicUK's Thunderhawk Transporter... they charge 300pts for a pair of transporters, and their Firefight stat is 6+... doesn't that tell you that maybe most of the people who's been using these things thinks that they're too good to cost 200pts?




_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Steve54
 Post subject: Black Templars V3.5 proposed changes
PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 7:58 pm 
Hybrid
Hybrid

Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2005 8:35 am
Posts: 4311
Quote: (Evil and Chaos @ 11 Jun. 2009, 14:09 )

Quote: (GlynG @ 11 Jun. 2009, 13:06 )

Wandering OT now but that's not exactly inspiring my confidence in Epic-UK if they haven't fixed them since, it just highlights problems with completely closed playtesting and not allowing the wider community to look over them prior to being officially released.

Their approach to the game / development ethos has certainly put some of my friends off attending their tournaments, but they're clearly not going to be conducting open development in the same manner as Jervis developed Epic's rulebooks / the NetERC operates / the FrenchERC operates...

I'm looking forwards to the Bristol Tournament, as it'll be a less 'EpicUK-ish' so I reckon I can convince some of the guys to attend who wouldn't go near an EpicUK event.


=====

The above is not a slight on the guys who're working on the EpicUK projects, they are of course doing their best for their community.

I wonder if that is more people than have been put off from participating in list development by the constant pushing of opinions (as facts) as dismissal of all opposition by the 'London Armylist Committee'.

The above is not a slight on the guys who're working on the projects, they are of course doing their best for their viewpoint

_________________
www.epic-uk.co.uk
NetEA NetERC Human Lists Chair
NetEA Chaos + Black Legion Champion
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Black Templars V3.5 proposed changes
PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 8:32 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 05, 2006 2:57 am
Posts: 20887
Location: Harrogate, Yorkshire
Eh, there was an awesome post here about grokking the perspectives of others, but I deleted it because it sounded like I was being both aggressive and overly-defensive.

I guess I'm just a crap communicator.  :sad:

_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: Black Templars V3.5 proposed changes
PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 8:49 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 4:45 pm
Posts: 8139
Location: London
Hena I suggest mounting them on flying bases and not taking them off. then you have to accommodate two titan sizes areas which is easy enough.

As for 200 vs 200. Take the EpicUK stats and compare to a regular brick.
Both loaded for ease of comparison with 2 devs (leaving crusaders etc out).
Regular - FF - 2x4+, 8x3+, unit count 10, 1/24 chance of crit from each hit, can take two points of damage (RA4+)
THT - FF - 8x6+, 8x3+, unit count 14 and mobile afterwards, 2/27 chance of crit from each hit, can take 2 damage each and will typically 'spread' it over the formation thanks to the WE targeting rules.

I think in near every situation if something can take Rhinos I would want it to have rhinos for that drop, with the slight increase in fragility compensated by numbers and firepower.

Incidentally is the 3 strong formation needed? Does it not duplicate the Landing Craft?


Can I be on the London rules committee? Maybe for the Indian sub continental branch? :)

_________________
If using E-Bay use this link to support Tac Com!
'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913
"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Black Templars V3.5 proposed changes
PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 9:06 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 05, 2006 2:57 am
Posts: 20887
Location: Harrogate, Yorkshire
Can I be on the London rules committee? Maybe for the Indian sub continental branch? :)


I'd like to know where they meet, and if they have a secret handshake?

will typically 'spread' it over the formation thanks to the WE targeting rules.

Note that Pulsar has adopted the EpicUK 'all damage goes on one THT until it dies, only then does damage go onto the second' special rule for the Thunderhawk Transporter, meaning that you can't spread hits back and forth in a gamey manner.




_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Pulsar
 Post subject: Black Templars V3.5 proposed changes
PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 9:30 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2006 6:17 pm
Posts: 726
Location: London
Quote: (Evil and Chaos @ 11 Jun. 2009, 21:06 )

will typically 'spread' it over the formation thanks to the WE targeting rules.


Note that Pulsar has adopted the EpicUK 'all damage goes on one THT until it dies, only then does damage go onto the second' special rule for the Thunderhawk Transporter, meaning that you can't spread hits back and forth in a gamey manner.

i don't remember but i think they used my THT damage rules, but it doesn't matter as long as everyone agree's it works

_________________
"Dyslexia is a Privilege, not a right"
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Black Templars V3.5 proposed changes
PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 9:51 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 05, 2006 2:57 am
Posts: 20887
Location: Harrogate, Yorkshire
Ah you came up with it did you?

Alls I know is both use a pretty sensible special rule.  :agree:

_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
  Print view Previous topic | Next topic 
Post new topic Reply to topic  Page 4 of 7
  [ 93 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 30 guests

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  


Powered by phpBB ® Forum Software © phpBB Group
CoDFaction Style by Daniel St. Jules of Gamexe.net