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primarch
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Post subject: Care to comment?  Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2003 12:44 am |
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Hi!
As usual I was browsing the Epic A playtesting forums and saw a very interesting thread with even more interesting questions posted by CS. One in particular I would like poeple to comment on:
+++ Also, does this mean that Epic will be fully supported (by Fanatic) continuously, all armies will see release that this will not depend on sales? +++
Yes and no. The important thing isn't so much the level of sales as the *forecasted* level of sales. In the past all of the problems we've had with specialist games sales have ben because we forecatsed too high a level of sales, leaving us with excess inventory sitting in ourt warehouse. We've learnt from these lessons and with Epic we've forecaste at a realistic level of sales (round about Warmaster levels, basically). Now, if Epic proves leess popular than Warmaster and we end up with lots of stock sitting in our warehouse then we could be in trouble, but this is *very* unlikely. It certainly hasn't happened with any of the other specialist games, and I can't see why it should happen to Epic.
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I'll comment fully on my take of this later on, for now there seems to be a mighty big IF in this statement.....
Primarch
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iblisdrax
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Post subject: Care to comment? Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2003 3:29 am |
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It seems to me that GW is simply trying to make money without putting any money or effort into EpicA. While this is a nice buisness practice, you cannot reasonably expect to expand from your core of dedicated players ( who will buy the stuff anyway) without exposure and availibility, which costs money, which GW is apparently unwilling to part with. Kind of a vicious circle, isn't it?
Just my 2cents,
iblisdrax 
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Legion 4
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Post subject: Care to comment? Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2003 6:49 am |
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It fits into the "Nightmare" Scenario, we all have been talking about ! As I have said, E-A sounds more and more like "fighting war on a shoestring". Enjoy it but Who knows how long the E-A experiment will last ... 
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Mojarn Piett
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Post subject: Care to comment? Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2003 6:58 am |
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We'll just have to hope some of the fankids have grown up... 
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Jackhammer
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Post subject: Care to comment? Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2003 8:23 pm |
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primarch
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Post subject: Care to comment? Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2003 9:44 pm |
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Hi!
It seems to me that GW is simply trying to make money without putting any money or effort into EpicA. While this is a nice buisness practice, you cannot reasonably expect to expand from your core of dedicated players ( who will buy the stuff anyway) without exposure and availibility, which costs money, which GW is apparently unwilling to part with. Kind of a vicious circle, isn't it?
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This is one of my more common rant. It is indeed a vicious cycle.
I agree, GW does not want to invest money in epic, but they expect "the world" in return for the little they do invest.
Primarch
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Gandalf the Grey
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Post subject: Care to comment? Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2003 10:24 pm |
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I just don't care anymore. The glory days of Epic are gone to me. I think I have held out on this, but like Legion and Primarch, have had my concerns as well. Back when Jervis first mentioned EpicA, he said he wanted it to be the best selling game by GW! To return it to the days of SM2/TL, so now it seems like they would just be happy if they break even.
I still believe 100% that if they released a new box set rather than just the rulebook, you would be able to market it better and it would generate more interest. It would for me. I am past hunting down blisters in my area, and if the blisters aren't there, people won't be interested.
I hate to say it guys, but maybe I have grown out of all this. Maybe I like the Epic world from AT - Epic40k and since I already have everything, don't need anymore. No one I know cares about games right now, everyone I know is playing online games like Planetside and such. No one has the time for minature games. Even if they were into it all I am already disillusioned. EpicA might be a good game, but the overall effort won't meet up to my expectations and I am not about spending money on anything less than what I think is worth it. I have even lost interest in posting any more game stuff on my site. Maybe I am growing up or something. . . EpicA was my last fight though, and it kind of has lost. . .
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Tas
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Post subject: Care to comment? Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2003 1:56 am |
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| Quote (Gandalf the Grey @ 01 2003 Nov.,06:24) | | Back when Jervis first mentioned EpicA, he said he wanted it to be the best selling game by GW! ?To return it to the days of SM2/TL, so now it seems like they would just be happy if they break even. |
As we've said many times...nobody doubts JJ's sincerity for this to be so, but his vision just isnt shared by the Lords of Terra at GW.
too depressed to make any other comments
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Tas
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primarch
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Post subject: Care to comment? Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2003 2:34 am |
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Hi!
One point I mentioned from the very beginning was:
Who besides Jervis was on the "epic bandwagon"?
The answer? Easy. NOBODY BUT JERVIS.
Jervis is a great guy, but he doesn't call the shots in GW. He's a good game design, but not CEO of GW.
He may love epic, but no one else in GW does.
The story of epic A, even before release is already one of unfulfilled expectations:
They promised to make available the WHOLE epic line, they have since backtracked.
They promised "full" support, but cancel the epic magazine, give no release propaganda to inflame interest before release and no meld all fanatic mags into one available a couple of months AFTER the game is released.
They promised to bring out models for all the epic armies, but now we see terms like "Forecasted sales" and such.
Sure we can us the overused rhetoric of saying that epic is "never dead as long as we the gamers support it". For die hard fans like us, sure thats enough. But we all KNOW that it wont make epic a system played everywhere as it once once many years ago.
I can play the "enthusiasm" game. Its quaint to hope for the new games success. But I also know people on these forums are pretty smart and while we can all have optimism, if you see the facts as they present themselves, we all know where this new effort is headed.
As I have pointed out before a good game is only a very small part of a successful system. The main things such as resource allocation and effective marketing are just not there for epic.
Primarch
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Tas
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Post subject: Care to comment? Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2003 2:53 am |
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| Quote (primarch @ 01 2003 Nov.,10:34) | | As I have pointed out before a good game is only a very small part of a successful system. The main things such as resource allocation and effective marketing are just not there for epic. |
The game system is a byline only to encourage the No 1 priority: miniatures sales. ?Always has been, always will
Sadly, I concur (again) with all your comments Peter.
...especially the bit about us all being smart! 
(Ok its only a small silver lining to this thread, but you have to cling to it)
So in a few years I can see myself once again hunting down OOP miniatures as I reorganise my armies to NetEpic 7 organisation vice EA...guess I can handle that 
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Tas
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iblisdrax
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Post subject: Care to comment? Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2003 3:26 am |
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| Quote (Tas @ 01 2003 Nov.,01:53) | | Quote (primarch @ 01 2003 Nov.,10:34) | | As I have pointed out before a good game is only a very small part of a successful system. The main things such as resource allocation and effective marketing are just not there for epic. |
The game system is a byline only to encourage the No 1 priority: miniatures sales. |
This is so true. And since the allocation of funding for marketing, distribution and such would bring in more gamers and thusly, more sales, it leads me to the conclusion that the leaders at GW either do not like epicA at all, or don't think anyone will buy it. The decision to not distribute a boxed set or make Epic pieces availible to local stores only proves this is true. A sad situation it is.
my 2 cents,
iblisdrax
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"Have Leman Reuss, will travel"
"Hallo. My name is Indigo Montoya. You killed my father prepare to die!"
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Jackhammer
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Post subject: Care to comment? Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2003 10:23 am |
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| Quote (primarch @ 01 2003 Nov.,01:34) | | They promised "full" support, but cancel the epic magazine, give no release propaganda to inflame interest before release and no meld all fanatic mags into one available a couple of months AFTER the game is released. |
Things are far from perfect, Epic is no longer the third unofficial core game and it is being relaunched by Fanatic who have limited resources. But it has a had good reviews on the net, there are a bucketload of nice new miniatures coming our way, the system and setting seem a success and it will get 24 pages of WD launch/pre-launch hype as well as a new glossy magazine that will help support it. It might still be a failure and the launch will be far from perfect, but from all the doom laden comments you'd have thought it would have already failed! Maybe save the more extreme of them until after its failed?
Phew, I think that's the closest thing to a rant I've ever written
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CyberShadow
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Post subject: Care to comment? Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2003 2:23 pm |
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I think that this is a matter of perspective. Epic will never reach the prime of first edition. But, if it gets better support and a better reception than E40k, then we are at least moving in the right direction. If Epic is as popular as Warmaster right now, that will do for the short term. If it grows to Gothic proportions, then I will be very happy.
Jrvis is fighting an up-hill battle. But the difference is that he seems more realistic right now. That can only be good. I would rather have realistic forecasts now, than pay for optimism later.
I have some serious concerns about the marketting and advertising of the new game, and I am not convinced that everything possible is being done, but I am not writing it off just yet either.
_________________ https://www.cybershadow.ninja - A brief look into my twisted world, including wargames and beyond. https://www.net-armageddon.org - The official NetEA (Epic Armageddon) site and resource.
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