I beg to differ about the multi-turrets being dropped before the GM change was proposed.

My first post on how to fix the gunline was require MLs to shoot GMs.  Then I had two different ideas on how to deal with the Markerlight-equipped Remote Sentry Turrets.  One option was to limit their deployment to the Tau half of the table, and the other was to dispose of them entirely.  I was ignoring the middle ground of the mixed turret formation, entirely due to a lack of backing in fluff.

The way I see it now, there are two choices for 'fixing' this issue.  

One is to drop the points of *either* GM-heavy units (Stingray, Scorpfish.  Skyray is about right for it's AA ability), or to drop the points of the Markerlight units.

The other is to bring back RSTs in some form.  The mixed turret version doesn't need a special rule, since by definition an immobile unit can garrison, and part of the reason the RSTs were dropped from the main list was their special rule.  If people are OK with a modified special rule (in a list that already has a LOT of special rules), then we could add the RSTs back into the list.

_________________
"For the Lion and the Emperor!"

well i didnt know were to put all this but scince we are all here ill say it. I HAVE PLAYED 10 GAMES so far with the 5.1v and i bareley one 1, because a necron player made bad roles and had more off table so i won by 50pts. MLS are just terriable all the FF CC are the worset. ok their not CC army thats fin but not one guy/ battles suit has a ok CC.terminators are a 3 3. why cant the crisis have a ff4 cc4 ?you only have 4 suits per unit.my oppenent spits and their dead. their 3 armour dosnt save them. i just played a agame were 3 of my crisis suit units died without firing a shot. sad.i made most of the saves.anyway. we have a solution to the ML problem. scince the tau have NO artilerary. why dont you make the GM 45cm range but indirct.if you have a ML you can shoot them indirect which makes them 90cm . now they could shoot their gm and would have a way to add support to a unit further forward. my whole group came up with this and it makes good sense!!  also we all think fire warriors were better at 2x pulse rifle at 30cm. and with the gm rule as indirect fire they would have the supporting fire from their devilfish. like they should.fw have no at and are hung out to dry .also it would make good on the scorpionfish because it could fire any missle at 45cm then add indirect at 90cm. the tau should have good ff and bad cc. if their a shooty army. thats ff.im about ready to sell give up ect on tau(which is one of the coolist looking races )if it doesnt change.they s*ck. i spent over $400 on them have it all ect they are cool but no fun to play if you never come close to winning a game.you have to stay far away from all enemy units or you will die. their armour stinks and they dont get many shots.theirs alot more i could say but im rNTING . please look at the changes ive stated and give itconsideration . i was suposed to play tau at the war con in 3 weeks but i might not even go cuz i just lost all will to even play.  one more note we played one game with the 3 changes i said and still lost but it was a good game. nuf said RON IN P.A.

How would 45cm indirect be better than 90cm no line of fire needed?

Either way, let me reiterate that when I suggested the ML/GM change it was with the caveat that more units get ML. This hasn't happened so of course GM are currently underpowered. If more ML are added in the next version then I'm certain it'll even out nicely. Again, being underpowered is a much better position for the list to be in than the overpowered one it was before!

_________________
http://www.troublemakergames.co.uk/
Epic: Hive Development Thread

Ron, I recommend you read this battle report Tau v Speed Freaks between Hena and Mephiston.

The Tau require different tactics from most (or all) other EA armies, and this battle shows what I believe to be how the Tau should be/need to be played.

Perhaps you can post some details of your battles and force lists; people here might be able to offer some advice on how to get into the winning way?

well tau have to stay away from most armies or they will be eaten alive. but to stay away i have to move a shoot.  my broadsides and hammerheads do a good job but not enough. any unit i put out is destroyed . i am not a person who gets onto the computer much (dont have the time ect)i usually let Moscovian due it when we play.i know their are ways to play differantly but im tryin to make an army for warcon so it has to be built to go against anyone. yes i try to keep my units in close to each other to a piont but dose no good when their FF is a 5 and their are not many in a unit to lend fire. plus as we all know everone does clipping assults ect.an army shouldnt play so hard if you know what i mean. their should be some versiality to it, not play it this way or lose badly. most other races have this.i dont think their that bad. but their needs to be alittle more to them. units are all small. very little firepower. cant get close to anyone or die in the assult. i have to read more reports but im probly going to put the tau on the back burner for awhile.

Zombocom: it would let the units with GMs use them without MLs. and if a unit had MLs then a unit with GMs COULD LEnd supporting fire out to 90cm (indirect fire). right now the units with GMs cant use them. unless you are lucky to ML someone down range.yes i know to put a skyray in with all my units but it only can shoot out to 30cm from that peice. i dont keep my skyrays out in front!more to the middle/rear.

[quote="ronsandt,21 Apr. 2009, 04:10 "][/quote]
You've raised a number of points there Ron.  I'll try to address each of them.

well tau have to stay away from most armies or they will be eaten alive. but to stay away i have to move a shoot.

ok ive read alot here and you have some good tactics that i will try.thanks for the help.

No problem Ron.  Good luck

(And don't forget to let us know how you get on)

just thought i'd chime in here as the guy who beat up on ronsandt for those 10 games. while i will admit he hasn't been using the GMs the way i envision them ( i didn't even realize they were no LOS until after the last game when he told me), he has been using suggestions and army lists posted here.
we did have a few concerns. i don't spend a lot of time on the tau forum so i apologize if this stuff has alread been said. also i don't have the army list so this is all from memory.
FWs- why did they change from the 2x AP5+. this was great and fit nice w/ this shooty army. the 15cm dirupt shot is, for lack of a better word, goofy. it makes you think of them like rambo w/ pulse rifle in one hand and the pulse carbine in the other (not sure if the names are right but you get the idea). go back to 2 shots at 30 cm. also why are they the only main line infantry unit in the game w/ no AT shot?
GMs- let them shoot at 45cm w/ LOS. this will add to the shooty army idea and give much needed AT shots.

would love to know how you guys make these long posts when i keep getting cut off... anyway
MLs- ok i realize 40k has them so were pretty much stuck w/ them. but seriously, every other army in the game can call in arty and air support w/ pin point accuracy but the (technologically superior) tau cannot?
crisis suits- pretty much every "elite" unit when it comes to assaults has a 3+ be it FF or CC like terminators or pariahs. now i wouldn't consider crisis suits in that league but certainly they should be able to hold there own w/ them. why not 4+?
gun drones- give back the expendable. or at least give shield drones as an upgrade. the battlesuits are expensive and w/ low numbers in the formation they are a risk. if the shield drones had no ranged attack or FF value just made them 6+ armor save and expendable. it would give more staying power and a benefit in assaults.
all this being said i think this list is very interesting, just harder to play then most armies. perhaps a strategy guide on the new thread?

I'd highly recommend bringing up these points in the Tau Development Forum instead of here, cuz I don't think the Army Champions go back and revist old battle reports.

And to do long posts, I write them up in a word processor and then cut-n-paste them into the "reply" area.

_________________
"EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer

Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?

i mean no offense here but your reasoning is not valid. of course the enemy is going to make armor saves, but w/ 2 shots at 30 cm you are laying down more firepower then any other army, causing more hits, causing more failed armor saves. 2 different stats is just not right.
and i agree that AT6+ is not that good but they should still have the option. in 40k they had a chance to take out armor so they should have a chance in epic.

The problem is that normally FW are firing into cover, so those 2xAP5+ become 6+ and basically worthless. A single 4+ changing to 5+ is statistically pretty much the same, but they get the extra 6+ disrupt on top of that. The new version is definately better when shooting into cover or doubling.

Having said that, 2xAP4+ 30cm may well be justified, with a slight points bump. That'd certainly make them worthwhile taking!

_________________
http://www.troublemakergames.co.uk/
Epic: Hive Development Thread