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Joined: Fri May 05, 2006 2:57 am
Posts: 20887
Location: Harrogate, Yorkshire
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Quote: (Rug @ 29 Mar. 2009, 23:13 )
Rough riders:
They have "scout" in the unit description.... I do not think they are meant to because it says later to "add scout" to the smaller formation. That's a mistake, thanks for the catch. 'scout' removed from the datafax. I don't agree with removing they're extra attack, I thought this was axed in the guard review. I have used them without the extra attacks on several occasions including a tournament, they're awful! If you want to remove the extra attack they really need a 5 up save, you could say that they have bionically enhanced horses but are not as well equiped with chainswords etc. I won't go into this too much as its really another topic.
Companies of 12 having both attacks is very powerful, no?
I know it got nixed by the rules review, but then 95% of proposals got nixed by the review in favour of 'keep the game tournament-friendly' (An approach that tellingly failed, as the tournament gamers weren't happy and have started ajusting existing lists anyway).
I'm not wedded to dropping the extra attack, but the full Death Rider Companies have only been tested by me with only one attack.
The 5+ armour save could be good.
Smaller Russ formations
They're good, not great, certainly they tend to be more BM-vulnerable than Companies. One casualty leaves only 4 tanks that can fire. 2 Casualties leaves you 1 from breaking!
Bigger Infantry formations with the option of trenches or SHTransports
Did you notice their points cost? They cost much more than the same number of Siegemasters in their (Superior) trenchworks.
- Krieg infantry Co. (19 inf, 1 commander) - 350pts
- Krieg Trenches (50cm of trenches, 4 bunkers) - 100pts
- 450pts, 1 activation.
- Siegemaster Infantry Co. (9 inf, 1 commander) - 125pts
- Siegemaster Infantry Co. (9 inf, 1 commander) - 125pts
- Siegemasters defences (50cm of trenches, 6 bunkers, 50cm of razorwire) - 100pts
- 350pts, 2 activations.
So Krieg are paying a lot, in activations, points and in defence works, for that extra pip of CC.
Fast, cheap and large breakout formation; Grenidiers, Engineers, Big Rough Riders and the usual Warhounds
Aye, the Grenediers (With Centarus) & Engineers I've only just started testing. Grenediers with Gorgons are okay but not exceptional.
Warhounds are @275pts to mitigate their power, and Rough Rider companies at least don't tend to do great... all those 6+ saves don't last long.
A FAR larger ranger of SHTs to choose from, AND they can be added as upgrades!
Only the Macharius Heavy Tank can be an Upgrade, and if you take it you can't garrison your formation.
On the SHT side of things, the only reason that the Steel Legion don't have access to the other SHT's is because Fanatic had no money to make their own, and didn't want to give Forgeworld extra sales, so I don't see why they can't be worked in.
The Stormsword at least is closer to a Baneblade in power than a Shadowsword, whilst a Stormblade is a bit better, but still not as good as a Shadowsword IMHO due to the Slow Firing on its gun.
Griffin Mortars that can Garrison
Griffons suck though.  
Notably, if you want to use them to fire over 30cm, that means your entire 350/450pt infantry formation has to sit still and do nothing for a turn, in practice they're not great.
CHEAP Arty and AA that can garrison in emplacements
Yep, I think that they might all be 25pts too cheap.
They still cost more than the Siegemaster artillery pieces, considering that the Siegemasters get their Gun Emplacements for free, while here it's an optional upgrade.
Deathstrikes with better armour, more DC, can't be supressed
Yep, this one's nasty, although it is slow firing.
Krieg regiments can squeeze in fare more Vanquisher cannon than steel legion!
I can get 5 in a list:
- Death Rider Co.
- 6x Russ (Incl. Vanquisher)
- 6x Russ (Incl. Vanquisher)
- Death Rider Co.
- 6x Russ (Incl. Vanquisher)
- 6x Russ (Incl. Vanquisher)
- Infantry Co.
- 6x Russ (Incl. Vanquisher)
- 2975pts
As opposed to the maxed Steel Legion list of 4:
- Russ Co.
- Russ Co.
- Russ Co.
- Russ Co.
- 2600pts
Plus 400pts left to spend on AA / whatever.
Hardly far more, although I think the DK list would be better (The lack of AA aside) as it has a semi-sensible number of activations... although to be fair the 4x Vanquisher Steel Legion list sucks the big one so it's not nessesarily terrible that it looks better!
I try to test, I'll have a chat at open war.
Cool.
The easiest way to rebalance would be to not allow titan support. I know titans feature heavily in the siege of Vraks but how often would the ADMech be prepared to commit their Legios to the kind of war Krieg regiments fight?
No more often than an 'average' (Steel Legion) army, IMO.
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I know it looks powerful at first glance, but at least in my experience it's an underpowered list.
Thanks for looking it over / the offer of a playtest!
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