Hey, we don't need to agree on this it's no big deal. I would say though, to anyone intending on using any new ideas like this they must discuss it first with their opponent and gain their permission.

Anyway, here is where I am on this... other players DWWFY (Do what works for you)

I like the different blades but probably only one is needed. I would pick the Dire Sword stats. The Witch Blade does things that are already available to a Warlock so I feel that the special psychic powers should go.

I do not like the "armed with two swords" idea and I'm the groups only Eldar player. I don't even like it for other Titan races (Chain Fists). Bio-Titans and Gargants I can understand. Scream is right about the fact Eldar Warlock Titans would be very powerful and nigh on imposable to stop but personal experience has shown me that if the opponent puts up a quantity of fire on your Titan it WILL get hit and be damaged if not destroyed. The closer you get the more firepower can range your charging Titan. I had come up against the same problem Scream is talking about last night when thinking it over... So, when I use this I will be imposing a one sword limit and describing it as being due to the rarity of the material and quantity of this rare material to make just one sword. Other players can do what works for them.

Dire Sword/Witch Blade (The name is irrelevant and only for personal taste.)
+D6 to Caf, +1 Damage, -2 vs. Buildings. Arm Weapon, Rare - One per Titan Only.


Screams point about the Chain Fist vs. Block Grapple. Perhaps the Block/Grapple weapon if it fails it's roll should have to make an automatic damage roll no matter who wins the Close Combat.

Block/Grapple vs. Chain Fist success = No Chain Fist in CC
Block/Grapple vs. Chain Fist fail = Damage to Block/Grapple Weapon and a normal round of CC with Chain Fist allowed.

If any of this doesn't personally appeal then don't use it. I will be using it though. Unless I ever get a game against one of you which is unfortunately highly unlikely.  

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My head is full of War...

[img]http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk120/Warhead40k/Tyranid%20Swarm/DSC02262.jpg[/img]

Maybe we could change the rules for the D-Cannon to make it more useful:

"While not all that accurate, the D-Cannon is somewhat more versatile than other Eldar titan ranged weapons.  An Eldar Titan also armed with a Powerfist can detach the D-Cannon and use it as a club.  The Club has a similar effect to an Imperial titan Wrecker, and follows the same rules.  A D-Cannon may not fire and be used as a club in the same turn."

What do you think?

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Fire bad, tree pretty - Buffy

I don't even play Eldar and I think the sword is a great idea. Would be very dangerous with the 2+ and the high speed but nothing is unstoppable, especially in big games (and a CC titan is such a gamble it'd see most use in larger games IMHO, when most armies would have some way of stopping it if they were committed to doing so.)

Couldn't the sever thing be a free hit with TSM but only on a weapon location? That way it'd still be significantly different to a chainfist, and slightly better, but not instant unstoppable death?

I'd really love to see our Eldar player make Mandiblasters for some of his Phantoms : D I can imagine it looking pretty cool.

How about CC wing weapons? Something like a lasburner, or a short-ranged psychic blast similar to power ram rules?

The block idea I'm definately going to suggest to our group too. Aren't power weapons supposed to be covered in some kind of forcefield anyways? Surely they could block a chainfist at least some of the time : )

This all kind of makes me want to see a 4-armed Eldar Emperor Titan now!

EDiT> Eldar already have Waveserpents to (ostenibly) protect their elite CC infantry so a holo'ed-up CC titan seems very fitting to me at least. I also don't see it having a negative effect on the game, for me at least. Other armies have their own fast and unstoppable close-combat deathmonsters, the Eldar player is trading one of the best weapon platforms in the game to use it, and at any rate Titan vs Titan CCs are always a buzz even if it's hopeless : D

I tried sticking Kurandas's head on a Phantom back in the day but IIRC it was too wide to fit the wings.

I'm actually with Scream in being pretty uncomfortable about the idea of an Eldar CC titan.  A weapon giving +D6 that they can take two of sounds OTT, and the Phantom chasis is actually relatively cheap, so you could end up with a budget CC MONSTER.  Something like the suggested wing giving a minor  defensive CC benefit that would make opponents wary like a Lasburner wouldn't be too bad though....maybe.

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Fire bad, tree pretty - Buffy

That's a shame : ( A couple of scratchbuilt ones would probably look dumb on a Phantom head too, don't you reckon?

Since the swords are only going on Phantom/Warlock hulls couldn't you just make themreally expensive, or give an additional penalty for doubling up like you did with Warhounds - could turn it from budget CC monster to expensive glass-cannon gamble? : /

I'll have to have a look, but I think the available space is limited...maybe if the Mandiblasters were modelled jutting forward of the existing "cheeks", rather than alongside them it might fit and still look ok.

Yup, that's always an option.  I guess the first thought would be to cost similar to a Chain Fist, but perhaps if we make a Diresword 200-250 points only the really committed would take the option.

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Fire bad, tree pretty - Buffy

Or the Tactically insane! What happened to the one sword limit I suggested?

For the wings why not base it on the Eldar Knights Psychic Lance Projector and then you can have an Exodite style Eldar Titan. It also follows the Eldar Tech and rules instead of borrowing from other races.

I think the D-Cannon Club is just you being facetious. Hey, you could make the wings a sort of detachable singing boomerang type ranged weapon like Jain Zar that always returns to the caster. I can do it too, see.  

I don't imagine the modelling of the Mandiblaster would be so difficult. I'll need to have a closer look. Here's the idea I had for stats...
Mandiblaster Head
- - - - +3 Caf
(Infantry/Vehicles modify their save by –1 when assaulting this Titans Point Defence. Any damage to the head wrecks this weapon and it may not be repaired in battle)

And for the Exodite wing thing...
Psychic Lance Projectors
- - - - Special
1-3 No Effect resolve combat as normal
4-5 Reduce target to 0Caf for this turn. Targets with damage tables reduce their Caf by -D6.
6 Target must make an armour save -2TSM*

Both Eldar Titan Wing Weapons. Ethereal psychic attack in close combat.

*Larger save due to the larger scale of a Titans projector compared to a Knights projector.

More fuel for the fire lads?..

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My head is full of War...

[img]http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk120/Warhead40k/Tyranid%20Swarm/DSC02262.jpg[/img]

The D-Cannon one was tongue in cheek.  The sword points cost suggestion not so much.  Imagine if we did cost the Diresword at 25 points.  Take a Phantom with 2 Barrage Wings and 2 Direswords....400 points.  The titan is Agile, charges 40cm, has a 2+ fixed save on top of its' normal save (and you'd probably be snap firing at it, so effectively Hard to Hit as well), and has a CAF of 12+4D6.  That's going to kick the butt of a tricked up CC Heirophant for less points.  Sounds kinda scary to me    .

This is actually also a good selling point for taking the Chain Fist off the Warhound!  

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Fire bad, tree pretty - Buffy

This is actually also a good selling point for taking the Chain Fist off the Warhound!  

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"Take me to the Brig. I want to see the "real Marines". " Major General Chesty Puller, USMC

Putting chain fists on warhounds has always been a bit of a bad day for the enemy, two is a nightmare and strongly smells of brie. I've never come against it before but I'm sure someone somewhere has had a Warlord or Reaver with two Wreckers... Unique Close Combat weapons sound fine to me.

That's going to kick the butt of a tricked up CC Hierophant for less points.  Sounds kinda scary to me

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My head is full of War...

[img]http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk120/Warhead40k/Tyranid%20Swarm/DSC02262.jpg[/img]

And After the addition of wreckers & CC head the eldar titans struggle even more than before.

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"Take me to the Brig. I want to see the "real Marines". " Major General Chesty Puller, USMC

Don't forget the Chaos Titan Tail too... and if it's a Khorne Daemon Engine the extra D6 if winning.

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My head is full of War...

[img]http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk120/Warhead40k/Tyranid%20Swarm/DSC02262.jpg[/img]

In the end Khorne will be Khorne.. I do not want to change this and I doubt you want to either.

I actually think that chaos is one of the most important forces out there even if I dont really face them as often as I wish I would. Just consider the volumes of material out there.  

/P-man - devil worshiper

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"Take me to the Brig. I want to see the "real Marines". " Major General Chesty Puller, USMC

Yeah, Chaos is one of the most interesting armies to fight with or against.

I don't want to take anything away. I would rather add something when it's realised that there is something missing. If it doesn't work, drop it.

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My head is full of War...

[img]http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk120/Warhead40k/Tyranid%20Swarm/DSC02262.jpg[/img]

The prospect of a tricked up CC Titan chasing down your Phantom/Warlock has been around since SM2 was released.  I guess NE might have made things a little worse as now the CC titan can pretty much ignore intervening basers and just keep coming.  However, it is going to take at least 3 turns for a Reaver/Warlord/LoB to get to an Eldar titan that doesn't want to play.  If the Phantom hasn't been able to drop the baddie by then, then game on.  Seems fair and good.

Now, Tyranids are different as you could wear a Heirophant turn 2 if he outguessed your placement; and 2 turns is often not enough to stop the big Bug.  The other factor is Eldar titans rarely go First Fire because of the holofields, but I guess against Bugz it might be a good idea to take the risk from T2 onwards.

Cheddar Warhounds are also an issue I guess, but I'd be quite happy to take the Chain Fist off the available weapons.  It'd look rediculous anyway  

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Fire bad, tree pretty - Buffy